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Old 11th October 2017, 12:05 PM   #1
wealdenengineer
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VNUK

Look up VNUK, this is the European Commisions requirement that a law be introduced in every EU country that ANY vehicle, which includes ALL motorsport vehicles of every type, inc F1 to MOTOGP to the lowest forms of club sport, must have third party insurance in place . THERE IS NO SUCH INSURANCE AVAILABLE ! There are only a few days left to respond against this totally daft legislation, which could kill the whole motorsport industry in one stroke.
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Old 11th October 2017, 01:13 PM   #2
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Re: VNUK

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Originally Posted by wealdenengineer View Post
Look up VNUK, this is the European Commisions requirement that a law be introduced in every EU country that ANY vehicle, which includes ALL motorsport vehicles of every type, inc F1 to MOTOGP to the lowest forms of club sport, must have third party insurance in place . THERE IS NO SUCH INSURANCE AVAILABLE ! There are only a few days left to respond against this totally daft legislation, which could kill the whole motorsport industry in one stroke.
Yes that’s insane Frank. Good job we’re leaving the EU then eh? We (UK) have ‘enjoyed’ a much slacker regime regarding one off car & racing manufacture than almost any of our so-called European ‘partners’. I personally don’t believe this will be imposed upon us as we have a significant industry (and therefore employment) in the motorsports sector. However, it would do no harm at all to rattle their cages, if indeed we had any clue as to who’s cage to rattle. Anyhow, I thought that Adrian Flux provided cover? Thanks for bringing it up Frank..
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Old 11th October 2017, 02:46 PM   #3
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Re: VNUK

Interesting perspective
New European ruling means changes to insurance law – but do I really need a policy for my lawnmower?

How soon do we leave the EU?
Answer not soon enough!

Perhaps an insurance could be put in place similar to South Africa where 3rd party insurance is included for motor vehicles by a surcharge on fuel.

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Old 11th October 2017, 04:03 PM   #4
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Re: VNUK

As I and many others, including the MSA, understand, it is necessary that all wheeled vehicles , including bicycles, invalid and mobility scooters, farm machinery etc etc must be insured, even if used on private land , the whole thing is typical euro , ( PROBABLY YOUR MOWER AS WELL ! ) How could any insurance company assess the risk, would F1 be as dangerous as destruction car racing, MotoGP be as dangerous as speedway racing, or the little old lady on her 4 mph mobility scooter going to get her pension? If they make it Law, the French will just ignore it, but the UK will kill the biggest and most profitable industrial business streams in the country by complying to the letter.
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Old 11th October 2017, 09:17 PM   #5
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Re: VNUK

Sounds like you guys are way ahead of us yanks in creating rules simply to support "jobs" without any regard as to the practicality of it.
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Old 12th October 2017, 08:07 AM   #6
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Re: VNUK

This is a simple manifestation of a huge govt bureaucracy run amok. The people of the EU are sacrificing their hard-earned income (via high taxes) at the altar of this government with minimal representation and will continue to suffer the imposition of evermore ridiculous and burdensome rules and regulations that will choke their productivity and individual liberties and freedoms.
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Old 12th October 2017, 09:30 AM   #7
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Re: VNUK

'Twould appear every 'representative'-style government on the planet has a 'select committee' secreted away somewhere whose sole job/purpose is to dream up and instigate 'do-so-because-we-say-so' rules/regulations/laws that have no basis in logic or common sense.

We have more than enough examples of that on the books over here...

Last edited by Larry L.; 12th October 2017 at 10:01 AM. Reason: dyslexic oversight
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Old 12th October 2017, 03:40 PM   #8
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Re: VNUK

So is there no suspect party on the part of the insurance lobby? The reason I ask is that this appears to be specific in who would benefit, rather than the typical "spend money" government we see for more generalized spending.
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Old 13th October 2017, 12:24 AM   #9
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Re: VNUK

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Originally Posted by blueovalz View Post
So is there no suspect party on the part of the insurance lobby? The reason I ask is that this appears to be specific in who would benefit, rather than the typical "spend money" government we see for more generalized spending.
Terry

From the article it would appear so, possibly I suspect, a reaction to the same no win no fee, ambulance chasers, have you had an accident you are entitled to compensation brigade, who bombard us in this country, with unsolicited phone calls and constant advertising on radio and TV.

I remember my dad, (old school, try to resolve disputes and use litigation as a very last resort), many years ago when solicitors became able to advertise for business in the UK saying it was the beginning of the end for his profession, never knew at the time how right he was.
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Old 13th October 2017, 08:32 AM   #10
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Re: VNUK

Nick, Yes, and so true!

Similar in nature to your sentiment: Over the years my hip has developed some painful issues due to arthritis. With consistent bike riding, and low doses of non-steroidal anti-inflammatory medicine, I would never know I had a problem. But it took 3 separate firm statements to both the orthopedic doctor AND to his surgery scheduler that I did NOT want hip replacement surgery, and did not feel it was needed at this time. When I left his office (their tiny empire), I felt like I'd just walked away from a used car salesman. I'm now worried that he won't renew my anti-inflammatory medicine because it's preventing him from making a lot of money on a procedure. So much for today's medical profession.
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Old 14th October 2017, 12:00 PM   #11
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Re: VNUK

Terry, sorry to hear that. As an orthopedic surgeon I will attest that there are cheesy elements in the profession that disgust me with their "salesmanship". Fortunately, you have the option to go somewhere else. I would advise shopping around and choose specifically one who is fellowship trained in hip arthroplasty if/when the time comes. If the current dickweed won't refill your NSAID, your primary doctor probably will
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Old 14th October 2017, 02:39 PM   #12
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Re: VNUK

This is moving away from the headline of this thread. the VANUK legislation could have a very real affect on every motorised vehicle , and particularly in respect to all motorsport activities, and I hope will be far too complex to be able to be enforced.
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Old 17th October 2017, 05:52 PM   #13
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Re: VNUK

Frank ....... are you also aware of the changes coming into effect next April with regard to MOT's.
If you own an old vehicle that is pre 1960 and therefore road tax and MOT exempt BUT you have done work on it to increase its power by more than 15% from its original spec then it will go back into the MOT loop.
The hot rod fraternity have just heard about this and you can imagine the concern this is causing.
The un-elected twits in the EU are just on a gravy train of creating/inventing more and more rules that keep them in their highly paid jobs.
Mark my words ...... one day the peasants will revolt and it will not be pretty !
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Old 17th October 2017, 06:02 PM   #14
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Re: VNUK

Steve, No, that's another new one on me! Gets crazier by the day.
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Old 18th October 2017, 01:35 AM   #15
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Re: VNUK

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[If] you have done work on it to increase its power by more than 15% from its original spec then it will go back into the MOT loop...
Are they actually going to dyno every registered pre-1960 car?
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Old 18th October 2017, 09:54 AM   #16
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Re: VNUK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Dean View Post
Frank ....... are you also aware of the changes coming into effect next April with regard to MOT's.
If you own an old vehicle that is pre 1960 and therefore road tax and MOT exempt BUT you have done work on it to increase its power by more than 15% from its original spec then it will go back into the MOT loop.
The hot rod fraternity have just heard about this and you can imagine the concern this is causing.
The un-elected twits in the EU are just on a gravy train of creating/inventing more and more rules that keep them in their highly paid jobs.
Mark my words ...... one day the peasants will revolt and it will not be pretty !
The thing that gets me about governments in general is the fact that they're continually sticking their noses into things about which they know n-o-t-h-i-n-g and passing laws regulating them w/o the slightest thought about - or nod toward - either logic OR common sense.

E.g.: "...(if) you have done work on (a pre-1960 vehicle) to increase its power by more than 15% from its original spec then it will go back into the MOT loop." WHY was "15%" chosen as thee 'guiding light' there? What 'scientific' theory/principle/law was employed to come up with that? As a practical matter, what difference does it make whether the h.p. is 'upped' by 15% or 20% - OR AT ALL for that matter? Most modified pre-'6o vehicles aren't driven more than a few hundred, to perhaps 1 or 2K(?) miles a year. They're weekend TOYS and toys only - NOT daily drivers that rack up tens of thousands of miles per year 'each'. The total annual pollution produced by all of 'em collectively would likely be exceeded by the yearly output of a single diesel transit bus fleet operating in any given 'big city'. $o, given that, why doe$ the government in$i$t it'$ nece$$ary for modified pre-$ixtie$ car$ to meet/pa$$ any environmental reg$/te$t$?

I need my morning coffee...
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Old 22nd October 2017, 11:22 AM   #17
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Re: VNUK

The primary purpose of the new MOT rules is to remove the requirement for all VHIs (vehicles if historic interest) from needing an MOT. Its nothing to do with making money - in fact it's the opposite.
However, what they are suggesting is that if a vehicle has been substantially modified from its original spec, then it cannot be considered if 'historical interest' so will need anMOT as before.
The 15% rule is one suggestion of how they might define substantially modified. Hey are expected to make an announcement about the final ruling in November.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 07:37 PM   #18
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Re: VNUK

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...what they are suggesting is that if a vehicle has been substantially modified from its original spec, then it cannot be considered (of) 'historical interest'...
I see your point, but, again: "WHY was "15%" chosen as thee 'guiding light' there? What 'scientific' theory/principle/law was employed to come up with that?"

IOW, what iron-clad law of the universe dictates that a 15% / 20% h.p. increase mystically and magically turns a classic car into one of no 'historical interest'? Or, as I suspect, was it strictly a case wherein 'x' number of all-knowing bureaucrats just arbitrarily declared that to be the case?

And how would anyone know a particular car's h.p. had been 'upped' anyway if, say, the power mods were all internal?

It's a distinction w/o a difference if you ask me...and you didn't.

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Old 23rd October 2017, 04:41 AM   #19
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Re: VNUK

We are in danger of this important thread being hi jacked for political ideology again, but trying to stick to the initial point, with a degree of relevant thread drift, I agree with Chris.

We also have the problem in that many on here like Frank are extremely competent mechanics many and I include myself are not. I get my MOT exempt 1935 car MOT’d every year as a basic safety check, they have picked up things that I have missed or got used to whilst driving and compensated for.

I have seen some of the pictures of cars admitted for the IVA tests that have failed and it is frightening that some would think there cars would pass with things like brake pedal boxes and seat-belts bolted to fibreglass panels etc.. These are the same people that may very well be stuffing a 500hp V8 in a 1950’s ford popular and then not having to get it MOT’d again frightening.

I read an article in a classic car magazine that said when they introduced the pre 1960 MOT exemption sales of normal service items such as brake pads / shoes etc dropped dramatically. They are now talking of extending this to cars over 40 years old, if so we are getting into the likes of early Lamborghini Countach supercars not requiring a basic MOT safety check once a year.

To reiterate I am not talking about the competent professional or amateur engineers but for the rest of us and having gone through IVA I do not think subjecting a car for an annual MOT test is particularly onerous and I will continue to do so for my 1935 car. It’s only going to take a few high profile accidents in un MOT’d cars before they at the least will be hiking our insurance premiums dramatically, or at the worst will be looking for an excuse to legislate us off the roads.

The federation of British Historical Vehicle Clubs appear to be looking into this as well

AHC FBHVC Report

Also worth noting although straying into the political and it is important to keep an eye on it whilst lobbying, as an EU directive "Directives normally leave member states with a certain amount of leeway as to the exact rules to be adopted. Directives can be adopted by means of a variety of legislative procedures depending on their subject matter."
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Old 24th October 2017, 10:31 AM   #20
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Re: VNUK

It would be a great day indeed if the making of new laws did not stray into the poltical arena Nick!

I don't have a horse in this race unless an 03 Nissan qualifies, but I have just bought a new mobility scooter (brandy is a helleva tipple) for the cost of a small motor car and the insurance costs almost as much as the Nissan. For the life of me I cannot recall reading about continuous claims against mobility scooter riders but I suspect that if you put the word "disabled" in front of anything then you get to pay at least 50% more. A bit like the magic revenue doubler "marine".

I imagine the 15% is an arbitary starting point. The whole thing would be impossible to police but the outcome, in the event of an accident involving a third party, could be catastrophic if such modifications were undeclared...

However, there are thousands of young whippersnappers & fellowmelads driving around with humungous turbos on their "standard" vehicles, so.....
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