GT40s.com

GT40s.com (http://www.gt40s.com/forum/)
-   All GT40 (http://www.gt40s.com/forum/all-gt40/)
-   -   Lola MK6 GT replica? Feedback required. (http://www.gt40s.com/forum/all-gt40/13379-lola-mk6-gt-replica-feedback-required.html)

RobBeddington 19th April 2004 06:24 PM

Lola MK6 GT replica? Feedback required.
 
Hi everyone

Over the last couple of months I have been involved in various discussions on the feasibility and market appetite for a replica of the Lola MK6 GT, IMHO one of the most beautiful cars in the world. Without this car, the Ford GT40 would not have been developed to its Le Mans winning spec.

The MK6 replica would feature a monocoque tub with spaceframe front and rear, per the original, and the bodywork would be identical to the 1963 London Racing Car Show Car (silver car below).

http://www.datsun.org/fairlady/LolaGTPrototype.jpg

Like the original, there would be the option of a Ford 289 per the 1963 Le Mans Lola MK6 (green car below)

http://www.datsun.org/fairlady/LeMan...olourSmall.jpg

Or you could go for a Small Block Chevy per the Mecom Lola GT that won the Nassau Tourist Trophy in 1963 (metallic blue car below).

http://www.datsun.org/fairlady/Augie...WordsSmall.jpg

There is no doubt that the original has been accepted as a ground-breaking classic. The Le Mans car, restored to race winning form, recently sold to Japan for GBP 380,000.

The question is, do members of the forum think there would be a market for this car across the world? We are not talking big numbers (and we are not talking GT40 monocoque prices). We are, however, talking of a build quality by a highly reputable name in today's replica/sports car market.

All feedback is very welcome.

Cheers

Rob

MK -IV J6 19th April 2004 09:57 PM

Re: Lola MK6 GT replica? Feedback required.
 
With a Colatti and a cable shift linkage like the original?
No.

patbarry 19th April 2004 10:22 PM

Re: Lola MK6 GT replica? Feedback required.
 
Mincing any words tonight Jim?

kmcgowen 19th April 2004 11:09 PM

Re: Lola MK6 GT replica? Feedback required.
 
It's an interesting car. I don't know all that much about the original, but do wonder about its aerodynamic qualities. (Seems to me I recall problems with lift?) Wouldn't matter much to someone who just wants it for street use, but it could be an issue for track use.

My thoughts would be if they want to do a Lola, do the T70 Mk IIIB Coupe. It would have much more recognition and I suspect a much wider appeal, as well as being a better car dynamically.

Kevin

Yuji Yamada 19th April 2004 11:39 PM

Re: Lola MK6 GT replica? Feedback required.
 
I read the article on the "Car Magazine", one of my most favorable magazines in Japan, for the Lora MK6 GT several months ago.
However, personally I'd prefer T70 MK III Coupe besides GT40. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

RobBeddington 20th April 2004 02:25 AM

Re: Lola MK6 GT replica? Feedback required.
 
Thanks for your feedback so far.

Jim - I've found a company who will copy the Colotti Type 37 casing and use their own (improved) internals, with a number of possible ratios, depending on road/track set up. This would be an option.

Yes, the cable gearchange was notorious, and was the reason the car crashed at Le Mans in 1963. However, Caterpillar Tractor cables proved bulletproof in testing/racing the same car in its last season of vintage racing.

Regarding lift, there is no doubt the initial cars had problems, like the early GT40. Lola later added vents to the front of the Mecom car which helped. The same car also ran a rear lip spoiler in 1964, which again helped. At the 2002 Le Mans Classic, the Le Mans car was recorded at 180mph down Mulsanne straight (without a spoiler) with no problems.

As far as the T70 is concerned, yes there is a market for an accurate replica. However, the monocoque is a far more expensive pattern to reproduce, and there are replicas of the T70 Spider and the MKIIIB already. IMHO, the MK6 is more compact as a road car with better visibility etc. Plus Eric Broadley, who I enjoyed over two hours with last week, always saw the MK6 as a road car, until Ford made him an offer he could not refuse. Eric is enthused by the idea of a replica and regrets that he did not develop the car fully himself. The T70, on the other hand, was designed as a pure race car.

Thanks again and keep the feedback coming.

Rob

gheacock 20th April 2004 03:44 AM

Re: Lola MK6 GT replica? Feedback required.
 
I am interested in to know your expected sales price of the Colotti transaxel. I have a non GT40 project underway and have been looking for that vintage transaxel.

Greg

Canuk40 20th April 2004 08:34 AM

Re: Lola MK6 GT replica? Feedback required.
 
Hi Rob,

Well, the Lola Mk6, another love it or hate it car. It is kind of cute, historically significant as a developement car and small. Could appeal to an elite few. Hey, I'd love a Lancia Stratos repro too.

Can you sell enough to make business out of it? I doubt it.

Most buyers of our GT40s are larger in stature, even the 40 on the lower limit of acceptable size.

Packaging of components and incorporating a/c will be no fun at all, if even possible allowing for larger individuals.

It's just not good enough looking to make buyers out of non enthusiasts. That's where the growth is in the replica industry.

So what do you need for a commercially viable replica? Drop dead gorgeous looks, historical significance in competition and or design, space for contemporary sized people and components. Hit all the bases and you've got a home run.

Even then you're not guarenteed a winner, look at the Cobra Coupes for example. The only redeeming factor for the Daytona replicas is that they cost a fraction to tool up for,being Cobra based, so low volume can be tolerated.

The Mk6, like the Cheeta or Stratos is almost there (is the Stratos replica still being made?). I'm sure the Mk6 could be done and be a real cool car as well, better as a single car project by a home builder than a commercial venture.

If the Cobras do demonstrate anything, it's easier to sell a convertable and at lower price points.

So I'm not picking on the Lola, the criteria the same for all cars, hope that helps.

Cheers


DenisBedford 20th April 2004 08:35 AM

Re: Lola MK6 GT replica? Feedback required.
 
I believe there is a market for a replica of most old racecars I have been involved in the manufacture of kitcars for over 40 years now and have found that all the old cars are popular most guys that are in love with the GT40 appreciate the other cars of that era I am currently building 4 replicas of the Jaguar XJ13 2 of which are going to members of this forum in the USA so go for it mate and then when you finish that make the T70 although another forum member is actually working on that at the moment good luck

Canuk40 20th April 2004 08:53 AM

Re: Lola MK6 GT replica? Feedback required.
 
Hi Denis,

Please send me info on your Jag project. Another car that fits the criteria:)

I believe cars like the Cobra, Lotus 7, Ford GT40 have what it takes to span generations and make enthusiasts out of people who don't know the history of the cars.

Building only for todays enthusiast won't help you in 5>10 yrs. Look what happened to all the Auburn Speedster replica manufactures. There market demographic as aged past the point of buying high priced toys and the next generation isn't turned on by the Auburn or other really great cars from that era.

Cheers

MK -IV J6 20th April 2004 09:19 AM

Re: Lola MK6 GT replica? Feedback required.
 
Rob
I bet that Cat. cable did work better. I use a similar cable in my Lola as for the street I use a GT40 ZF box rather than the original Hewland and it works pretty well. (Pics. in Lola tub thread)
On another note real cars with big history are moving up. A MKII with nice history traded for 3 large,large, large. You'll be seeing it at the LeMans Ledgends race in July.
Best

JIMMYMAC 20th April 2004 02:26 PM

Re: Lola MK6 GT replica? Feedback required.
 
Gents,
My GT40 is not yet complete and I am already thinking about my next replica and I'm set upon either the Lola T70 or the Jaguar XJ13 ( Brit cars for me every day! ).
I might go for a mono-tub this time - definitely with a ZF.
Can somebody please give me the "low down" on who is currently building these two Marks at the moment.

mick9903 20th April 2004 05:54 PM

Re: Lola MK6 GT replica? Feedback required.
 
Hi Rob
Thanks for the post of this beautiful car! How much are you expecting the replica to go for? I can't afford a gt40 yet so maybe this will be the other option I am looking for. How long will development take. Can you post any further information / pics you have. Thanks

Mick

BenL 20th April 2004 09:01 PM

Re: Lola MK6 GT replica? Feedback required.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, the cable gearchange was notorious, and was the reason the car crashed at Le Mans in 1963. However, Caterpillar Tractor cables proved bulletproof in testing/racing the same car in its last season of vintage racing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Caterpillar Tractor?

What sort of tractor uses that cable shifter ?

(this is a bit like the windshield wiper motor on the MkII is out of a Boeing 707)

Fatal Attraction 20th April 2004 10:06 PM

Re: Lola MK6 GT replica? Feedback required.
 
In 1963, Caterpillar was widely known for heavy equipment, but also built marine diesel engines. Caterpillar Marine (same company, different division) wasn't a separate brand name at that time. The cables were likely a marine part, with the Caterpillar Tractor moniker.


MK -IV J6 20th April 2004 10:07 PM

Re: Lola MK6 GT replica? Feedback required.
 
This is not original. The co. that makes these cables for Cat made one for me as well. They are very high tech. Pics is Lola tub thread. They are used to control various things including the space shuttle. They are flexible but if mounted properly very precise.

http://www.gt40s.com/ubbthreads/show...o=&fpart=1

brianstewart 20th April 2004 11:37 PM

Re: Lola MK6 GT replica? Feedback required.
 
JimmyMac, check out http://www.temperocars.com/cars.html

They make a drop dead gorgeous replica of the XJ13.

Cheers, Brian.

DenisBedford 21st April 2004 05:28 AM

Re: Lola MK6 GT replica? Feedback required.
 
Bill the modern marine cables are excellant Teleflex Morse 43c is the one to use I have been using these for 30years and have never had any problems you have one in your car and I am sure you are very happy with your gearshift they do have a plastic liner so they must be protected from heat asto the XJ13 replica all the equipment has been purchased by Richard Dommers (forum member)the sportscar factory near Washington DC www.sportscarfactory.com

RobBeddington 21st April 2004 09:01 AM

Re: Lola MK6 GT replica? Feedback required.
 
Thanks again for the feedback, both on and off list. I will try to answer the questions as best I can.

Ian, thanks for your comments. We are not talking full time business here, I'd like to see it as more a hobby business with potential.

Interestingly, the GT is not as small as people think. It's two inches taller than the GT40 and only slightly narrower. The drivers at the time apparently had no complaints, and more recently Tony Dron and Paul Haywood only required a Gurney bubble for today's style of crash hat. Both are over 6ft tall. The GT has space for a spare wheel. It also has a small amount of luggage space behind the seats. How many GT40s have that?

Cosmick 40 (and others). Regarding cost, it's early days, but I think the GT would sell in the UK, all taxes paid etc, as a 'turnkey minus' for around GBP 30k.

The cost to produce the car, even as a monocoque is significantly lower than the T70 or the GT40. The price I heard for a monocoque T70 replica was over double the cost of the GT.

Unlike the GT40, the roof is fiberglass with space frame strengthening bonded in (Eric Broadley fell out with Roy Lunn on the steel roof of the GT40). Eric himself has come up with some recommended modifications to the tub, which he would have developed into the original project before Ford came along. His input has been fascinating and there's lots more I could add.

Greg - as far as the re-engineered Colotti option, the price is yet to be fixed but is expensive (and appeals to me)- the Colotti would become cheaper as more are produced. Bearing in mind the other Colotti applications (Lotus/Maserati, etc), there could be a real case for tooling up. I will keep you posted.

There would also be the usual transaxle possibilities that we all know and love, mated to a 289 or SBC.

Wheels - as well as the possibility of tooling up for the original style wheel (expensive - but again there would be economies of scale), the Lola GT was run on Cobra 289 FIA wheels in late 1964 (remanufactured wheels already exist), and Borranis in GT40 testing by Bruce McLaren. IMHO, this car would look fantastic on Borranis - there is a maker of Borrani replica wheels in the UK.

Carbs - these started off as a stock Fairlane carb (as raced in early 1963) followed by quad IDAs - even EFI was tested on the Lola GT in the GT40 testing. Now that would be an interesting idea...

I will keep you up-to-date on developments. If anyone else has anything to add please let me know.

Thanks again

Rob


Chris Liokos 21st April 2004 11:51 AM

Re: Lola MK6 GT replica? Feedback required.
 
[ QUOTE ]
even EFI was tested on the Lola GT in the GT40 testing. Now that would be an interesting idea...


[/ QUOTE ]

EFI? (Electronic Fuel Injection) Is that correct? Maybe it was MFI (Mechanical Fuel Injection) as per the F1 cars of the day. I don't think micro processors were around then [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:40 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.38 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.