Serial Plates

lwdent · 08-17-03, 06:20 PM

Someone had asked about serial plates. The plate behind the drivers head on the rear bulkhead, on both my vehicle, GT 40 P/1005 and Ford's last unmolested car GT 40 P/1008 are indentical. They are a metal plate, apparently silk screened in black with aluminum showing through. In big block letters they say FORD MOTOR COMPANY, next line says CHASSIS No. with a space for hand stamped numbers, GT 40 P/1005, in my case and the third line says ENGINE No. with no number stamped in.

There are also 4 aluminum tags stamped with the i.d. number in various parts of the car which I don't think should be made public. If you have a correct car you will know where they are and the unusual way in which they are stamped.

Larry Dent, Executive Director, National Automotive and Truck Museum of the U.S., Auburn, IN.

MK -IV J6 · 08-19-03, 12:21 PM

I'm glad to learn they survived the fire...

J What? · 08-20-03, 02:19 PM

This brings up a good point. What determines a real car? How much of a car do you need in order to rebuild it as the original? How little of a car do you need to have? The vin plate? Wheels? Wheels uprights and axles? Wheels, Uprights, axles, control arms, steering wheel? Front and rear stub in whatever shape they are in? After it is rebuilt what is it? Certainly not original. Is Ronnie Spains book the Holy Grail of the GT40? I bought most of my car from Rick Nagel. If you read about J1 in his book he states the car was saved from destruction and sent to a Shelby Museum in Colorado. It is no where to be found, either in Colorado or anywhere else in the world.
Wasn't it Gerbels who said if you say something enough people will believe it.

MK -IV J6 · 08-20-03, 02:59 PM

Once again.
Ford owns J1. They still and always have had title to J1. When they instructed Lee Holman to destroy J1 FORD retained tile to J1.
Your car is not J1 nor will it ever be J1. If you want I can put you in touch with Fords lawyers if you want to confirm this.

J What? · 08-20-03, 06:12 PM

You seem to miss the point. Firstly I have addressed my car in an earlier thread nor did I mention it in this one. You, Jim, made a comment about a car that was destroyed in a fire according to Ronnie Spain's book. My point was that Ronnie Spains book has flaws in it and your seemingly sarcastic remark about vin tags seems to be based on his book. Or did I take it the wrong way?
As for the ownership of J1, you might ask Lee who he thinks owns it.

MK -IV J6 · 08-20-03, 06:43 PM

Bill
I'm sorry if I didn't make my self clear and or misunderstood. You did indeed discribe your car correctly. I meant to refer to what I thought you were referring to the "Nagel J1". I now realize that is a separate "car" from yours. Lee maintains that Holman and Moody have title to J2 and Ford has title to J1. You read my remark about "1005" correctly. I agree totally with you re: constructing an "original" from a title and a chassis plate. As you have pointed out their is a big difference between lets say 1075 and "1005". You are also correct that Ronnie's book also has many errors including calling J5 J6.
Where will you be racing this fall?
Best

Chris Melia · 08-21-03, 12:19 PM

Hi all
This topic of what makes a real car is interesting.
P1073 was badly damaged years ago and rebuilt using a new monocoque, however the original damaged monocoque from this car has been under repair for the last 30 odd years and is now just about repaired and rebuilt into a complete car.
So do we now have two P1073 or does the repaired monocoque forfeit the right to the original number?.

It also states in Ronnie Spains book that P111 was a total loss and the car robbed of all good parts and the tub scrapped, but last year this car was for sale in Belgium with FIA papers, it also looked to be fitted with a KVA MK1 body shell from the photos.
I have herd of other cars that have as many as three cars sharing the same chassis number, One built from the original body, one from the original engine and trans and a third from the original chassis.
This gets complicated, and I would like to know exactly what the FIA position is on this matter

Regards
Chris.

Chris Melia · 08-21-03, 12:25 PM

Photos of P111

Chris Melia · 08-21-03, 12:27 PM

Cockpit P111

Chris Melia · 08-21-03, 12:28 PM

Engine Bay P111

Chris Melia · 08-21-03, 12:34 PM

P111 front of tub

MK -IV J6 · 08-21-03, 01:15 PM

Hi Chris
As I understand it there are two parts to FIA papers. The first part establishes that a car is spec correct/period correct not that it is original. The second part goes to whether or not it's original and if if remains so. As I understand it pure replica's if built to original standards by the original mfg. can get FIA papers of the first type. Lee Holman's MKII's are in this catagory as would be Lola built Lola T70 "continuation" cars. As you have seen with J6 the number of truely original cars are few and rare.
Best

Robert Logan · 09-27-03, 04:24 AM

To Larry Dent,

A close friend of mine here in sunny Australia is George Humble who owned 1005 in the late 60's . He is currently recovering from a stroke which has slowed him down a little. I am sure he would love to contact you and I would be happy to put you in contact. Please contact me via e-mail etc. and I will pass on.

Best wishes,

Robert

40 Bud · 10-03-03, 04:24 PM

It can be confusing - trying to sort out truth from fiction!I have become aware of a gentlman who claims to have been an engineer for Ford and who was involved in the development of an alumimum chassis GT40 in early 60's. He also claims to own one of these cars and that it is in southern California. Anybody out there ever heard the name Lawerence Leckband or know anything about the car?