U.S. GT40 Racing Association

mlevea · 21st August 2005, 11:55 AM

Can we start one? Would there be enough interest to afford to rent tracks? We could keep it sane with a vintage racing rule. You hit someone you fix their car. Let's you race as fast as you want. You just have to be a bit more conservative in a passing situation. You can't do a NASCAR punt to pass anyone. Like racing used to be. Require a valid SCCA or Barber School license. Non-profit, dues cover some costs and events would require a pre-signup and have its own cost. Just some thoughts.

I want to build a GT40 racer and I want to race it in a series that means something. So let's make our own racing series. Bi-coastal but you can run a single coast if you're not going for the championship. We'd need a couple guys to honcho the left coast operation. Lay out some rules to keep the costs from skyrocketing like coordinating west and east coast events to allow for travel.

Ron? You have VIR in your backyard and I have Summit Point in mine and the Glen is not too far away. Mid Ohio and Limerock are within a day's drive. Johan? What's near you? Road Atlanta? As the Midwestern Council of Sports Car Clubs is going its own way can we do the same?

Anyone interested?

Mark

Ron McCall · 21st August 2005, 03:26 PM

I will be!

mlevea · 21st August 2005, 05:56 PM

Pantera cousins are welcome, too. Seems appropriate for the class. I mean IMHO.

Ron Earp · 21st August 2005, 07:49 PM

Not to be completely negative, but I personally don't think we'd have a chance. Given that there are only probably 70-150 (I don't know, rough guess) running GT40s in the US right now, it looks like a long shot since not that many would want to race their cars. You'd have to rent tracks, cover insurance, gather up corner workers, emergency services folk, pay everyone, marshal the event - this is a seriously huge undertaking for a handful of cars. While it is possible to rent tracks for a handful of people, I know it has been done at VIR for around 10-15 people, it is really only possible in the context of a sanctioning organization such as the SCCA, NASA, or with a professional race team or organization such as NASCAR.

Besides, a place exists to run the GT40s - NASA KC classes would allow them. If you have enough people you could then simply use NASA infrastructure to run the GT40/Cobra/Pantera/etc. subclass, much like the Carolina Cup currently runs alongside SCCA Regional events in the Southeast and it has a completely separate points competition and pays money.

And, using the NASA infrastructure would also take care of some other things. NASA relies on the SCCA to produced licensed drivers so the licensing would be handled essentially by the SCCA. NASA would handle the necessary annual tech inspection and event tech inspection as part of the KC class process. Running with an existing organization really makes things possible - look at the Factory Five Spec Cobra racers - quite popular in the Western states and there are a few in the Southeast as well. The thing is, I'd imagine the number of people willing to race a Factory Five Spec Racer outnumbers those that are willing to race a GT40 something like 500 to 1 - cost of entry etc. is a big barrier and one could get a Spec FFR on the track for $15k to $20k, that is not going to happen in a 40.

Not saying it can't be done, but it'd be really difficult I think. It'd be hard enough rolling it in with a NASA KC class, but at least it is feasible.

Ron

Ron McCall · 21st August 2005, 08:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Pantera cousins are welcome, too. Seems appropriate for the class. I mean IMHO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't talking about the Pantera. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

mlevea · 27th August 2005, 08:49 AM

Well I must say I AM under-whelmed.

Running a Cobra/Pantera/GT40 class under sanction of a club would be OK to me. I'll check our local Cobra group to see if anyone there is interested. If we can stir up enough interest in owners of the 3 marques we might convince a club to sanction us.

The thought of playing bumper cars with race cars twice my height and nearly twice my weight is not appealing in the least. Both NASA and SCCA would place us with cars engineered for bash and crash racing. I understand the US is highly "into" this form a racing but it doesn't interest me considering the structure I'd be racing.

Judging by the response I think Mr. McCall and I could have a lot of fun but the cost would be prohibitive.

On to the Cobra club site.

Ron McCall, any of your Pantera buddies interested in some all-out but gentlemanly racing?

Mark

Ron McCall · 27th August 2005, 08:54 AM

I'll pass it along and see.

Johan · 27th August 2005, 10:25 PM

Mark, I rent tracks occasionally and you are welcome to come run with us sometime. We have a great time, but getting others to commit to a series is all but impossible.I race my car with HSR, but I'm not sure who else could or couldn't.Road Atlanta is over 10,000 per day, so if there were only 30 cars that showed up for a three day event that would still be 1000 each. HSR gets 400 cars so the entry is 400 each .
It would be best to tag on to NASA or some other group like the spec racer Cobras have done. Without a sanctioning body and licensing, there is no insurance, and without insurance the risks are too great. Also, in no form of racing is a competitor responsible for another competitor's car.
The bad/aggressive drivers get suspended, but that is about it. The rest is "just racin'".

Ron Earp · 29th August 2005, 11:49 AM

As Mark and I have discussed in email, I really don't think there exists an "all out but gentlemanly" racing of the type Mark wants to see - it isn't 1955 anymore. I know Mark mentions being underwhelmed with response, but the challenges to such an endeavour are very high, and quite significant.

Most folks that are experienced racers and know what happens on track are not going to want to race a GT40 or Cobra without significant structural changes to the car, i.e., a proper cage that conforms to SCCA specs. Racing needs to take place in a race environment with a monitored track, corner workers, and of course, insurance from a sanctioning body such as the SCCA or NASA. But, if you race with these folks then you are full-bore wheel to wheel racing and you must abide by their safety rules, have a race license, and be prepared to accept all that real racing entails - damaged car, wrecked car, hurt feelings, and injury (rare with SCCA spec cages).

I'd certainly be a candidate for racing a GT40 here in the US against some of you other folks. But, I really don't see a place for non-regulated racing in a car like a GT40. I do wish that the SCCA particularly would be more accepting of replica cars, but they are what they are and not likely to change. NASA could probably be convinced to have a class, but you'd need a good number of people to validate them doing it and I don't think a number of even twenty hard core GT40 racers is going to do that. Too few and too far spread across the country for NASA to consider fooling with as a class. NASA seems to have a class for every car, which is not always good IMHO, but I digress and that is a subject for another discussion.

I think about the closest thing you'll be able to find to what you want (no full SCCA-type cage, no race license, no crash and bangers) is going to be Porsche, BMW, or car club type track day events. It isn't racing, in fact most won't even allow you a timer and you can only pass when pointed by or in certain areas, but at least it is track time and a hell of a lot of fun.

I think there is a real possibility for us to organize a www.gt40s.com Track Day at a track. I've written Mark about it before, but we could do it at VIR for us East Coast people and we could open it up to complimentary cars as well so that we get the numbers up and the costs down. I'm still not sure about insurance, I'm investigating that right now, but the problem is as mentioned above you need a sanctioning body for that important function. And, sanctioning bodies don't let GT40s race in the Gentlemenly like manner as Mark asked for so it is sort of like a Catch 22 situation. If we cannot do it on our on it might could be we could crash a BMW Track Day (they'll love that!) with as many 40s as we could muster.

Best,
Ron

Alex Hirsbrunner · 29th August 2005, 12:45 PM

Hello Folks,

Please do feel free to join us at any Northwoods Shelby Club meeting. Especially at Road America this is about as close to "real" racing as you can get. The track is so long that the "no passing in corners" restriction doesn't really detract from the experience (my opinion), and chances are that you and your car will be in good shape (except for the occasional paint chip) when you go home. Normally the format is Friday & Sunday high speed touring, Saturday transponder based timed runs (with plenty of spacing).

As you can see from the photos I posted in a separate thread this weekend, your cars would definately fit in.

Our next event is at the Autobahn in Joliet IL in Oct., (just South of Chicago) which I'm told is a beautiful new private facility that is essentially a country club for track enthusiasts.

More info here: http://www.nwshelbyclub.com/Autobahn_handout_page1.pdf

and here: http://www.autobahncountryclub.net/

I would suspect if there is enough interest it may be possible for GT40 only sessions to be arranged, although I personally enjoy seeing the intermix of old vs. new technology on track.

Please feel free to contact the folks listed on the brochure or Gary Hammond directly if you have questions or ideas (ghammann@excel.net).

Best Regards,

Al H.

J What? · 29th August 2005, 01:16 PM

There is a lot of "racing" going on around the country and I can't believe a person cannot find a way to get in on it, at the level they want. In vintage they even have an exhibition race where they kind of catch all cars that either don't fit into their classes or just want to run without the degree of competition associated with the race groups. The rules change from group to group and some are quite a bit more liberal with their requirements than the more well known, larger clubs. The Shelby club event is nice because it is a real competition without the wheel to wheel issues. In racing these are the only options. Either take your chances or step down to a level where you feel more comfortable and less exposed which equates to less competetive.
There is always Drifting or what I like to call "break dancing". Can anyone explain to me this completely counterintuitive form of exihibition? How can racing be subjective?
Bill

Johan · 16th September 2005, 08:02 AM

I always rent a track in the Southeast the last weekend in June. I've done it for many years and I invite my buddies and we have a sort of "racing school weekend". I usually get about 20-30 Cobras, but this year I would like to get as many GT40s and Lolas as possible. See
www.roeblingroad.com for info on the track.

Lynn · 16th September 2005, 11:18 AM

Johan,

I just put the Willis Races on the GT40s.com calendar for June 24-25, 2006, so your locked in now! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

See you there!

Regards,
Lynn

Johan · 16th September 2005, 11:30 AM

I hope I have enough original parts on the Spyder to enter it, or I'll just skip it and run a Lola ! Lolas are invited too. It's a Lola/GT40 weekend ! Remember, it is a 30-45 minute drive to the beach from the track, so it is a great way to mix a family vacation with a track day or two.

Ron Earp · 20th September 2005, 02:31 PM

Johan,

When you planning on doing that? We race Roebling and this would be a great opportunity to get some GT40s out on the track. Mark Le Vea is in VA, Gary is in VA, I'm in NC, Lynn is in NC, so that is four. Undoubtedly there are more since I saw a couple at Charolette SAAC. Be a good chance for folks to put their rubber on the road and see what happens, leave the bench racing behind.

R