More Flat Plane Crank Stuff

[Keith]

This is something I've been looking forward to hearing in race trim - the MP4 12C GT3. I have to say, to me, it sounds quite odd.

In pit lane at a certain rev, it sounds just like a 4 rotor Mazda loping along.

On initial acceleration it has the hallmark of a ripping flat plane high rev machine. When the throttle is nailed, it's got all the attributes of a cross plane 'odd' firing traditional V8. When in fact:

It IS a flat plane configuration
It only revs to 7,500
The GT3 version is 100hp less power than the road version at around 500hp
It's lighter.

All in all, quite an odd sound.

What does the panel think?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb-jNGMKRvw"]McLaren MP4-12C GT3 INSANE SOUND! - YouTube[/ame]

My main interest is that because the Mercedes deal with McLaren runs out next year and they have to start paying for them, I wonder if there's any mileage in McLaren developing their own 1.6 litre turbo F1? It surely cannot be a coincidence that they have gone down this (twin turbo) road with the 12C as everything else they've ever done is NA.

 

[Tim]

When it sounds like a Rotary, that will be the Pitlane speed limiter engaged, this often operates by killing any number of sparks to keep the revs at the preset.

I think it is a cross plane crank but due to the exhaust system it is harder to tell these days.

 

[Keith]

I checked the spec and it's definitely a flat plane crank, although I would have bet the farm on it being cross plane from the sound.

Also having the rev limit at 'only' 7,500 seemed to reinforce the illusion.

I further noticed the exhaust is separate bank to bank.

The engine is also very over square so now we have a high revving build spec running/sounding like a torque monster! It seems to contradict everything I personally know (and that = not a whole lot) about flat plane vs cross plane set ups.

One other interesting statistic is that it is claimed to be the highest horsepower for the lowest CO2 emission internal combustion engine in the world!

 

[Cliff Beer]

It sounds to me as if they don't quite have the exhaust system worked out yet for the race version. That much sputtering on the overrun is characteristic of poor fueling and flow characteristics for example. On the throttle she sounds OK, but not great.

If they had to use restrictors then that triggers a whole lot of problems....

 

[Jack Houpe]

They way they have the exhaust system plumbed sure makes a difference, I see they have a cross over just before the tips. If you have time watch all 3 of these videos I stumbled across, there certainly is a difference in the way its plumbed as for sound quality.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62-RpxVMoXA"]Lamborghini V12 Engine Reborn part 2 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Keith]

Interesting video. For me, the 12 > 1 got the edge as the 6 > 1 sound a bit ragged to be honest.

I believe I heard someone say that the 12 > 1 would give more torque?

Not sure about that though.

Presumably, that is a "proper" Lambo lump, not a VW! :laugh:

 

[Jack Houpe]

You know Kieth I don't know about the torque increase I sure like the different sounds it made with 12 into 1 on the old lambo engine.

I've been rebuilding an old 208 twin turbo Ferrari I have had for 18 years, I started the process 11 years ago and dropped it till last winter and my wife told me to finish all my projects before I kick the bucket. I'm at the last stage of the exhaust where it goes from the turbos to the mufflers or in this case just tips, before I melted a couple exhaust valves in 2001 it ran pretty good but was too quite, the turbos defuse the engine sound even running straight pipes so I have been searching for a different sound. When I seen your tread on flat plan crank I wanted to hear the difference. I thought the Mclearn was twin turbo, is it not?

 

[Mark]

Wow, those clips certainly do stir the soul. I was down at my car yesterday for our regular planning/progress meeting. One thing I am looking forward to the most, is finally getting to the stage where we fire up the V12 and start tuning the exhaust. I can't wait to hear it.

 

[Jack Houpe]

Mark what V12 do you have and what car is it in?

 

[Keith]

Jack, yes, the 12C is twin turbo. I do believe from hunting around that the 12 into1 will be better all round but harder to achieve ergonomically.

 

[Mark]

Mark what V12 do you have and what car is it in?

Hi Jack.

I am having an alloy bodied 412P built and have a Ferrari Tipo F116C V12, running Jenvey ITB's and Motec. With no engine mods other than the throttles, Motec ECU and 'correct' headers, I am expecting the motor to 'knock on the door' of 500 BHP, which should be 'adequate'. The standard, in road trim was 436. This is mated to a ZFQ using a Ferrari/AP twin-plate competition clutch assembly.

 

[Jack Houpe]

Hi Jack.

I am having an alloy bodied 412P built and have a Ferrari Tipo F116C V12, running Jenvey ITB's and Motec. With no engine mods other than the throttles, Motec ECU and 'correct' headers, I am expecting the motor to 'knock on the door' of 500 BHP, which should be 'adequate'. The standard, in road trim was 436. This is mated to a ZFQ using a Ferrari/AP twin-plate competition clutch assembly.

Oh my, that will be a screamer!

I have a spare V12 for my old Lamborghini lp400s, its very quite, here is a picture of it.

Sorry Keith for stealing your thread.

 

[Mark]

I hope it will SCREAM Jack! I probably will!!

Keith won't mind the hi-jack, Jack. I have to say that is a very cool Coffee Table.

 

[Keith]

Oh my, that will be a screamer!

I have a spare V12 for my old Lamborghini lp400s, its very quite, here is a picture of it.

Sorry Keith for stealing your thread.

I just love it when you talk dirty Jack, and no, you didn't steal the thread. Any posts of engine noises featuring flat plane cranks is better than a trip to a Thai massage parlour, well, it is for me at my age anyway.

Mark, I am loving your project man..... Foreman, Noble something like that right?

Personally I am a P333 (is that right?) adoration acolyte.:heart:

 

[Mark]

330P? I think the p333 is an intel chip!

"Mark, I am loving your project man..... Foreman, Noble something like that right"

Something like that Keith. It is being built for me by the very talented guys that rebuilt the 512S for that chap who plays drums.

 

[Keith]

Now you KNOW I don't use Google! :laugh:

Of course, you are correct - senior moment.

 

[Cliff Beer]

You know Kieth I don't know about the torque increase I sure like the different sounds it made with 12 into 1 on the old lambo engine.

I've been rebuilding an old 208 twin turbo Ferrari I have had for 18 years, I started the process 11 years ago and dropped it till last winter and my wife told me to finish all my projects before I kick the bucket. I'm at the last stage of the exhaust where it goes from the turbos to the mufflers or in this case just tips, before I melted a couple exhaust valves in 2001 it ran pretty good but was too quite, the turbos defuse the engine sound even running straight pipes so I have been searching for a different sound. When I seen your tread on flat plan crank I wanted to hear the difference. I thought the Mclearn was twin turbo, is it not?

Jack, you just have to love a wife who is that practical about things, and says it right to your face.

I've been telling my Dad the same thing for the last couple of years but it just keeps getting worse. The number of half built car and boat projects is just staggering. I'll have to retire for a year or so just to clean up his shite after he has departed this world.

ps. your kids are probably thinking the same thing......

 

[Jack Houpe]

No kidding Cliff, she is very easy going but once in a while she will pop up with some statement that makes you think......"What the hell??"

This is what I have been working on for the last year, please overlook the mess.

 

[Mark]

No kidding Cliff, she is very easy going but once in a while she will pop up with some statement that makes you think......"What the hell??"

That sounds like my Mrs. Full of support and all things wonderful. Right up until she kicks me in the nuts and threatens to boil my cat! ;(

 

[Jack Houpe]

That sounds like my Mrs. Full of support and all things wonderful. Right up until she kicks me in the nuts and threatens to boil my cat! ;(

:thumbsup: