Question on handling/driveability...

Hoping to drive a CAV GT40 next month but a friend of mine who had driven a GTD said "it was too much like a Pantera" and that has me wondering.

I've driven a ton of cars and though have plenty of open-wheel time I'm wondering how much fun something like this would be attacking the twisties.

Seems like given its weight, wheelbase, suspension and CG it would be an absolute blast. Currently I'm driving a Porsche 996 and though it can be induced to understeer (yes UNDERsteer) easily, it's a great handling car...is something like a CAV going to be like a race car on the street but a bit softer or is it going to be like a kit car or Pantera...lots of drama for little reward?

Thanks for any imput...obviously you guys love your cars but objectively, how are they to drive? I guess closest things to the CAV would be an ERA or a GTD is that correct?

A properly set up GTD will give you the blast you are looking for. Our club used to attend Panterra tracks days and we wiped them into the dirt! So make sure you set your car up properly whatever make it is as it makes tons of difference.

Malcolm

PS Is your CAV a mono or space frame? You didn't say.

Looking at the CAV monocoque.

Malcom is right. It's important to set the car up properly for your use. I have owned and drove both space framed and monoque,and there is'nt much difference in the basic handeling,but the monoque allows more room and great eye appeal when it's all opened up.Look at it as the next generaton of a allready great car.
p.s. it handels nothing like a pantera....

I assume that your name NASA RACER indicates that you actually motor race and your mail indicates that you have driven many different cars over many thousands of miles.You should therefore never accept what a third party tells you about a cars handling but should realise that most vehicles can be set up to handle just as the individual wants and a good driver will always be able to handle an "Old Dog" with considerable flare.
ANY make of 40, whether monocoqued or space framed will handle among the best provided it is constructed and set up correctly.Remember that this is not 21st century design and technology but it still retains some of the highest accolades possible. I,d love to take you round Brands Hatch for a few laps in my racing 40 and see what you have to say about handling then and even mine is not as sophisticated as some.
Graham @ GTA Racing.

Graham
Can I volunteer for Brands and then report to NASA 'cos he's thousands of miles away!!!

Dave M

Yes David,
This coming season there will be many testing sessions as well as races so if you have a helmet and a pair of brown trousers you may even get a run in the 917 later in the year as well.Gulf marketing and i have discussed a special track day for a day out for staff and customers so i might be able to get you into that but probably won,t happen until the weather improves.
It might be possible for some of those insanely quick hillclimb guys such as Malcolm Macadam to give you a run up a hill or two if they have test days.
Regards,
Graham @ GTA.

The only 917 I had anything to do with (fetching spares from Vasek Polak) had a
passenger seat akin to something from Mothercare. The car was rebuilt by Denis Davies whilst working for Adams McAll Engineering and I think it was owned at the time by David Piper. I've seen it around a few times since and it's recognizable irrespective of colour schemes becaue the right window has a flaw and discoloration. (Polaks didn't have spares for that window)
They were awsome cars but also had a few major accidents at the time. I seem to recall the frame was made from some sort of special aluminium tubing that work hardens and only the aerospace industry normally use.
Still - its not a -40 so never mind.
Dave

[ January 14, 2003: Message edited by: David Morton ]

Yes, I'd like to take you up on that Brands offer but I'm in California. Maybe I'll have to visit my brother in Northern Ireland and make a detour

I worked for (and raced with) Jim Russell in the early 80's at Riverside and raced Formula Fords, Formula Mazda and some regional Formula Super Vee and Atlantic. Worked for several restoration shops and was a mechanic up until I retired from racing in 1984 and am wanting to get back to having a fun car to work on but starting with something new (had enough "restoration" for a lifetime). Problem is, I'm a bit fuzzy from having a career in Graphic design in the years inbetween and seem to have forgotten most of what I knew about working on cars so want to make sure something like the CAV will help me "refresh" instead of dumping me into a nightmare

Now I own a business and just race for fun in an endurance racing series with a cheapo race car. This is moments before the engine blew up leading our class in the 12 hour in December...sigh.

Thanks for all the advice!

Here's ole greenie:

Us hill climb guys don't really get test days on the venues we compete on. The nearest we had was a charity event at Loton Park which was quite fun but this year the dates have changed so it is not on the club calendar as it clashes with Wiscombe.

However in the club mag you will see I put in a Stop Press about £75 winter test days at Donnington. Whilst the 40 may be in peices, I clearly need to test Wendy's Lotus for engine damage after its 9000 rpm blip! Graham, do you fancy meeting at Donnington?

What circuit is that above? Looks lovely. Sunshine too. Wow! Is that a little bit of opposite lock on?

On the handling front, I am known to like my car a bit different to the other guys ie perhaps a bit too stiff. However my aim in set up is to allow me confidence in the car and to try and feel what it is going to do next. Running with a stiff set up has given that to me. Others I think achieve it in different ways, so no one is right or wrong.

As I am pestering Julian KS at present, you also need to get your cabin ergonomics right so that you can concentrate on driving and the car, not where the hell has the brake pedal got to now! Bob Bondurants book on High Performance Driving is a good starting point as it takes him 7 chapters before he even turns the engine on! JKS will drop his times once he has it just right for himself.

Malcolm

I'll be at Donington on the 16th so hope to see some of you guys there!

Julian

Do you mean tomorrow? Bit short notice if so....

Malcolm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> What circuit is that above? Looks lovely. Sunshine too.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is Thunderhill in California. We generally have nice sunshine except the 12 hour being in December can rival UK conditions. Last year it was 40 degrees F with 30mph wind and I believe it rained 1" that day.

i wish it was tomorrow! 16th Feb to be precise. I'll be staying at a nearby hotel the night before with a couple of mates if anyones around for a drink.

[ QUOTE ]
Malcom is right. It's important to set the car up properly for your use. I have owned and drove both space framed and monoque,and there is'nt much difference in the basic handeling,but the monoque allows more room and great eye appeal when it's all opened up.Look at it as the next generaton of a allready great car.
p.s. it handels nothing like a pantera....

[/ QUOTE ]

As we had a discussion here in the "racing corner" and I might share some info.
What makes a car fast??? Here is a list in falling order of what action to take.
1. The Driver.
2. Tires and camber angle.
3. The seat.
4. Weight and CGH.
5. Aero.
6. Springs, dampers and rollbars.
7. The rest......
Guess there is a lot to be said about each step, F,ex many might wonder about the seat comming in
as 3:e of important things. But when 1g of cornering power is passed, you must remain glued in the seat.
Otherwise we can not control the car.

Hp is not mentioned, that is becourse it dosent really add to cornering power, yet making the car faster.

Personally I am of the opinion that we can make any car fast, and that the difference between good sportscars are pretty small. There are no "supertrix" in suspension geomery, cgh - location, trackwidth and wheelbase that sets one car way ahead of another. The Pantera sure have some "weak" spots, but so does all cars. One is torsional rgidity and another is problem by fitting a good groundeffect pan with diffusser.

Goran Malmberg