Questions on 8 barrel injection

I am torn between using 8 barrel injection wich looks awsome or the stock 5.0 mustang setup, which is basicaly free, dead simple to wire up, reliable and passes emissions testing. I can get away with quite alot but in all the pics i see i can't see any sign of egr or pcv systems on any 8 barrel setup. If i am just blind then how is it done evenly on all 8 cylinders?
Is the extra hassle worth the look? I assume the throttle bodies would be extremely loud and get annoying on long trips?

Hi Eric,
We fitted Kinsler Throttle bodies to Roy Smart's GTD40 and there is no EGR or PCV systems to control emissions. Over here, the emission reg's are less tight on 'older engines' but I guess from your post, things are much tighter over there.

About noise - yes, open bellmouths are very, VERY NOISY!! - We compete in Roy's 40 and without ear plugs, we are considerably slower and I suspect suffer damage to our hearing. When used on normal roads, we also use ear plugs which give the added benefit of enabling us to detect any mechanical mishaps that might be taking place.

regards

Paul T

Eric, There are a couple of other issues to deal with beyond what you mentioned. The main one is the engine control system. Many installations use only the TPS (throttle position.) This is not to say that they aren't capable of other inputs, but most realworld applications are that way. Some have used individual lines from each TB (throttle body) into a manifold from which a composite manifold pressure is read. There are those who say this does not supply an adequate representation of manifold pressure to provide a load factor into the injector timing and duration outputs. There are various schools of thought on this and I am not advocating or deriding any of them. Individual TBs/runners are, to me, the ultimate in cool on a GT40, BUT educate yourself well on the alternatives of ECU systems out there to make sure the assumptions and compromises will provide the driveability you can live with. Kinsler's catalog has a very good matrix of ECU systems available and their capabilities. There are other types out there beyond what is listed, but this is a good starting point. The guys at Kinsler are racers who were very straight with me when I talked with them.

If you chose to use stock type EFI do keep in mind that the '94/'95 upper intake will be needed to fit under the rear deck on a 302.

I need to use an engine to meet 95 or newer emissions (lousy rule) so without egr, among other things, I'm dead in the water on my first choice.
How much is the difference (i assume it is height) with the upper intake? I assume the lower is the same? Any idea if an aftermarket one will fit? I might even consider building my own, i have a contact that builds heads and can flow test whatever i want.

Lynn,
Did the Kinsler crew seem to have reservations about how applicable their systems are to a street vehicle?
Scott

Regarding ECU's, Have any of you UK guy's heard of Emerald? Run by Dave Walker (writes the tech stuff in CCC) they manufacture a user programmable ECU that altho aimed primarily at the Rover K series, will run a V8, or apparently even a V12!

I use this ECU on my lotus, getting 200 bhp & 150 ft/lbs from a 1800 4cyl, & is completely tractable with excellent idle, road manners etc..

I have a wiring diagram to connect the Emerald to a V8, with 8 injectors, TPS & Lambda. It'll also run a shift light, cooling fan & a couple of aux outputs. On the V8 setup, ignition is triggered by a Lumenition optical switch in the dizzy. This unit (from memory) retails at around 650 UKP.

You'll need some rover connectors, but these are readily available at most scrapyards!! check out http://members.aol.com/emeraldm3d/

Eric, yes the difference was height and it was at least a couple of inches. One issue you will run into if you use '95 style upper (lowers are the same I believe) is that egr gasses are drawn off of no. 3 not up through the valley as on 89-93. So you'll need to have a tube on you headers to be in compliance. I have no idea where you can put the airpump; it wouldn't fit anywhere on my Sabre. Since you are building the car, you can do just about anything you want The box type might fit, but I have been warned that these make really lousy street intakes with no bottom end at all. Now there are Cobra type intakes for 94/95. BUT, the clearance problem that was solved with the redesigned upper intake was NOT on the Mustang; it was on the T-bird that used the same engine, so make sure that they have the same clearance as the stock. I have not verified this because my next step is planned to be the stack type EFI if I can design one to my liking.

Kinsler didn't have any caveats, but then again, I am assuming they would leave things like emissions and other street related considerations to the user. We also did not get into specific configurations for my car. I made it clear that I was going to build the car with fairly stock induction, get the car as whole debugged and then look at alternative induction down the road. I know where you are coming from though, Scott, Kinsler is primarily a race shop. But, Mr. Kinsler has a real GT40 that he drives on the road, so they are aware of the issues. (He got it for around $8K! It was the one GM bought and took apart; he bought the boxes of parts at an internal surplus sale and put it back together. Some people have all the luck!)

[ July 11, 2002: Message edited by: Lynn Larsen ]