Next problem: a 289, 302, 351, or 427?

Now that I have selected and made the necessary purchases for the chassis and transaxle which I plan to use in my 40 build, the next big decision is what motor to put into it. First off, I am not planning on anything too exotic like that screaming long rod 302 that Chris is putting in his car or any stroker 347 or anything like that. Just a plain old Ford with maybe some aluminum heads, multiple carburetion, a good cam and ignition. That type of thing. The exotic motor may come later, but we'll have to see about that. For the present, here are my options: a used 289 which may need a rebuild and which is presently residing in a '64 Galaxie 500XL(complete car with factory air conditioning $400); a good running older carbureted 302 (free); a 351 (not yet located, but probably in the same condition and price range as the 289; or a 427 ($$$$$$). My friends, both here on the GT40 Forum and elsewhere, are trying hard to convince me that the 427 is not the way to go, but hey, after all, a 427 is a 427, and that ain't all that bad, is it? I'm not planning on using the car for competition other than maybe an occasional fun day outing. Nothing serious, though. My first instinct is to set the car up with the free 302 and then maybe later go to something a little more exciting. Maybe I should make accomodations in the original chassis build to handle the FE motor later on if that is what I decide upon down the road. Any thoughts and/or advice from any of you on this subject?

First thing you have to do is check the emissions rules in your state/county. This may take away any choice you have and force you to go with the 289.

***IMPORTANT*** If you do decide on the 289, check whether it's a 5-bolt or 6-bolt bellhousing. Although I've seen people paying higher prices lately for 5-bolt blocks, you will probably need a 6-bolt. The fact that it's in a 1964 car indicates that there's a good chance it's a 5-bolt.

Other differences between 289 and 302:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>The water pump inlet is on opposite sides of the engine (passenger side for a 289, driver's side for a 302). This may make a difference in which you choose. I had to put a 302 water pump on a 289, and it's 1/4" longer than the 289 water pump so requires some custom spacers.

<LI>The harmonic balancer: on a 289, it has 3 bolts while on a 302 it has 4. Thus pulleys are not interchangeable. Another reason I needed spacers rather than just using 302 pulleys on my engine.
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As I noted elsewhere sometime back ago, Dyno2000 claims my 289 will make about 375 horsepower - that's with nothing really exotic (9:1 compression, Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, 214/224 cam) and although I don't believe the number, I still think that it'll be plenty of horsepower.

Put some thought into the additional expenses and problems involved in installing a 427. NO A/C!! Much more expensive gearbox!!
Modifications upon modifications, ad infinitum! Go with the small block. You will
have about a zillion options from there.
You might want to hitch a ride in a 40 to
get a feel for the horsepower that you will
want in your car. I think that you'll find
out that a small block is more than sufficient for the street.

Whats the condition of the 500XL? and is by chance a 4-door hardtop?

Jay - It is a maroon 2 door hardtop. Condition is complete but rusty. It would make a good parts car for someone doing a resto. My concern is whether the air conditioning system could be used in the 40. Would the compressor and its mounting brackets fit, etc. I'm not sure whether the 289 motor would be the "correct" one for a 40 clone but I think it would be kinda neat with a set of Webbers on it. On the other hand, I'm sure that there are plenty of A/C equipped 302 cars sitting in the local bone yard for me to pick up those parts from.

I think this is the ideal thread to post this question on: I am starting to think about the engine for my GT40 and would like comments on the relative merits of using a vintage 289 block, Boss 302 (assuming I could find one) or modern roller 302. From everything I have been able to read, the modern 302 is the one to go with, for a relatively mild engine that will have a hydraulic roller cam, Webers, AFR heads, and probably an MSD ignition. My second question is: which modern 302 block? Ford seems to make several of them and I am wondering which is the one to use as the basis for a durable engine that I can run hard occasionally without worrying about it. Since we have a lot of Ford experience out here, what do you all think?

I have a crate 302 with Aluminum head (345HP) in my 40 that I purchased from Fremont Ford for $3200. I added intake carb and an old style water pump. The performance is unreal

I also have a cobra with a 428. In a straight line, it snaps your neck But If I had to do it all over again, a 302 or 351 would have been a better choice

Steve - I am curious as to why you stated that the 40 would probably require a six bold bell housing rather than a five bolt. Is it because of availibility of adaptors? If I decide to make my own adaptor will this solve the problem? BTW I am planning to use an Audi 016 transaxle.
Thanks.
Regards, Blue

Steve - Also would appreciate any info on the short water pump which I believe Ford Motorsport offers. Is this a must for a 40 and will it fit a 289? Thanks, Blue.

All of the kits I've seen have bellhousings/adapters for the 6-bolt block. That's certainly not to say that you couldn't use a 5-bolt, but yes, it would require some custom fabrication. Also bear in mind that the 6-bolt bellhousing allows a larger diameter clutch, so you may need something exotic to hold the power from a hopped-up engine.

Re: The short water pump: It's a 302-style pump in that the inlet is on the driver's side. I believe Ford has a pulley set specifically for use with this water pump (because the dimensions will be different than standard 302 pulleys). But the crank pulley will have the 4-bolt pattern, so will not bolt directly to a 289 (no problem with the water pump bolting to the 289 - the bolt holes are all in the same place). So you would need a harmonic balancer with a 4-bolt pattern. If you're doing a full rebuild on the engine, this shouldn't be a problem - the Ford M-6316-C351 has both 3- and 4-bolt patterns predrilled (or so I am told). Fluidamper and others also make 28 oz. 4-bolt dampers. But if you wanted to use the engine as-is, you'd obviously have a problem.

As to whether the short water pump is necessary: it seems to depend on the kit. For example, ERA says yes for their cars, but CAV says the standard water pump will fit theirs...

AC can be fitted to a 427. I did it in my MK-IV. It works fine. I also fit AC into my Lola (366 SB Chev). Transmitions are a good question. Has anyone successfuly used anything but a T-44 with a 427?

427 or 302 or 351 ?
I have a 427 with Alum heads,2 4s, gear drive roller cam and rockers and every new part I could find at the time (about 8 yrs ago) in my Corba. It was expensive to do. I recently helped a friend build one for a Comet. Car turned out so nice it was featured in many Magazines and one of the model car companys made a kit of it. This engine cost more than mine. Check pricing carefully as 427 parts are very dear. I know as I have some N.O.S. pieces that I have been offered insane price for.
I have rideen in Gt-40 replicas with both 302s and 351s. They both felt good to me. I know my car will have a 302 of I hope 350 HP.
Explorer block, Boss 302 crank, Eagle rods, Comp roller cam, Weber carbs and Edelbrock heads.
VIC

Don't know about the other ford motors but can discuss the H.O. 302 roller motor.

The "good" years are from '87 to '92. Previous to '87 had a different weaker block and after '92 they quit using forged pistons.

A good "builder" runs from $400.00 to $800.00 and if the oil has been changed an engine with 90K miles still has 60K to go on the pistons. These motors last longer because of the EFI.

I bought mine with 90K and the pistons are still well within factory clearance.

So for $500 dollars I have a roller motor that doesn't need pistons and a bore. (Roller lifters, unlike regular ones, are reusable with a new cam) Hop-up parts are numerous and economical, and with some AFR heads you can get 400 HP.

Ford now makes an accesory water pump that is 1-1/4" shorter, fits the 302 front cover, and outlets in a usable position.

As far as 5 or 6 bolt bell housing adapters, both are available for say a G50, not sure about the renault Taxle's.

[ October 16, 2002: Message edited by: Kalun D ]

In my early years I moved around in a 1967 GT 500. Had the 428 with ignition and headers. Big time torque. Aquired a 427 medium riser, fairly tall cam, for the time.
Used both 2x4 and single side winder intake systems. Big torque and rpm. This engine is still in the chassis. The last Shelby came with a mild 351W. Replaced that with built Boss 351. IF I was giving up any horsepower (I gave up some torque) to the big blocks, handling sure made up for it. I'm planning on using Weber induction, parts on EBay from Nascar engines.