GTD coolant pipes

Now I've completely stripped the cockpit of my GTD I've 'discovered' the water pipes running in the passenger side footwell.

I guess the pipes were routed this way for ease, but it looses several valuable inches of footwell space & adds to the heat problem.

Re-routing the pipes thru the wheel arch looks possible, but may cost some steering lock.

Have any other GTD owners found any improvements here?

Julian,
The amount of heat soak is negligable even with a small amount of lagging and my advice would be to leave it as is.I would suggest you lag pipe immediatly under steering rack to reduce heat induced wear.
Regards,
Graham - GTA.

Do you have any possibility to route them through the center tunnel? Long aluminum pipes do nicely for this purpose.

Many cars do this without any obvious problems - ERA, RF, Sabre, and maybe DRB. The tunnel can be insulated, the pipe wrapped, and then secured to the center spar frame member. Aluminum panels can be nutted over the entire center section for added security. This might allow you to have more freedom to enlarge your footwell slightly, or to gain room in other areas.

The only down point I could think if would be if the car were involved in an accident which compromised the frame and the pipes inside the car. But looking at my own design an impact of that magnitude would compromise other areas of the car, and hence the cooling system and lead water release elsewhere first.

Ron

Julian,

If moving the pipes isn't an option, you might want to ceramic coat them to reduce heat transfer into the cockpit.
My DRB's are tunnel mounted, and ceramic coated, and even in hot weather, running hard, the tunnel doesn't get particularly warm.

Bill

Hi Julian,

Roy Smart used a ceramic cloth on the current car and with the water pipes running straight down the middle of the cabin, little or no heat at all is transferred to the cabin, even when pushing hard.

Give him a call for details on cloth.

regards

PaulT

All,

Thanks for your input. Running the pipes thru the centre of the cabin would surely mean moving the handbrake?

Graham, You've made me aware of another issue re 'cooking' the steering rack. I had noticed how it would tighten up after a drive thru traffic.

I've got more food for thought now!

Julian,
I personally think you are giving yourself a lot of extra work for no advantage whatsoever.Trust us that have responded to you so far that even with minimum lagging heat soak is negligable and in fact you have several advantages by not having central running pipes.You have seen my 40 and i do not even have carpetting to absorb heat and as a driver you are well away from that side anyway!!!
Regards,
Graham.

Julian

I agree with GTA. I have done 14000 miles in my GTD and never had a problem with heat in the footwell or with the steering rack. Also if you ron the pipes down the centre you will find you have no room for the clutch pedal. I think you would be giving yourself a lot of work for little gain.

Brian

Hi Julian

The build manual suggested that the space behind the cover panel for these pipes was filled with expanding foam. Once the cars started needed maintenance and access to this space, the recommendation changed away form expanding foam as it is a real bugger to get to the suspension bolt and jubilee clips on the water pipes. But that is why you will or should find double jubilee clips on these pipes. What GTA suggests with ordinary pipe lagging is the new way to insulate these pipes. I spent some time digging out the foam with a knife to get rid of it when I did a suspension rebuild once. A real pain.

As suggested above, you drive the car, let the passengers worry about leg room! Actually I often see passengers with a leg on top of this panel (like a footstool) although this might only be possible as I have removed the heater matrix.

Malcolm

[ January 08, 2003: Message edited by: Malcolm M ]

Thanks to all of your replies. I'm chuffed with this forum in that I can receive ideas & advice from a group who's opinions I have great respect for!

My pipes are indeed encased in expanding foam - yuch! However I thnk re-routing them, altho a good idea, is too much work for my liking.

I'll live with the pipes & footwell as is & lag the pipes accordingly. I'm also wondering if I can incorpirate some cool airflow thru & around the steering rack when I re-panel the front of the chassis.

The more I get into stripping the car, the more 'areas of improvement' I find! I'm confident I can reduce cabin heat significantly with careful attention to the tub panelling, heat reflective coverings & lagging (thanks for the idea!)

best regards to you all,

If anybody wants another panel that Malcolm M refers to, I've got one going free as my pipes are routed through the centre. Incidently with some judicious use of panelling on the centre the foot well space is more than adequate.This panel is a gtd type - I never used their internal tub either.
Dave
2nd.Edition 'Bentley R/Green' GTD with copious amounts of cutting and changing.

If you add a blocking plate under the nostril panel, formed around the air exits and seal it with door edging for an air tight fit, you will force the hot air to exit the nostrils over the windshield. Make sure that you add some exit holes, for any excess pressure build up, into the wheel wells. You don't want extra pressure added to the dzus fastners holding in the nostril panel!! Also glue in 1 1/2" of hard foam on the front of the tub in between the framing behind the steering rack. Another easy way to insulate the steering rack and the cockpit is once the car is finished push fiberglass insulation into the cavity were the steering rack is located. You can pack it as full as you want if you just at some nice sheet metal covers under the servos and master cylinders.

I know we all view things very differently especially when it comes to building cars but i think Julian you should seriously avoid insulating the steering rack void in the way 40 Bud suggests.(Sorry Bud)Fibreglass stuffed into that area and boxed in may act as a heat shield but it will also absorb heat and retain it and act like a sponge when water gets into that area. What though i consider the most worrying thing is that you have introduced a dramatic wear agent tightly around greased moving parts should a boot split but also under the high pressure area you are likely to force fine unseen fibres into the cabin with long term health implications!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GTA Racing.

I don't have a high pressure area here as the rad air is all diverted outside. Once you determine the amount of insulation required you just loosely bag it in plastic bags of various sizes and pack it in around the water pipes etc. I imagine you could also use those annoying little styrofoam packing beads in heavy duty plastic bags. My car has over 10,000 track and road miles on it and I have had no problems with heat, wear or dust circulating.

Julian

The most efective way of keeping the footwell cool is to get the hot air from the radiator to exit the car either over the windscreen, or out of the wheel arches.
The only way you will get cool air into the footwell is to duct it in from the openings either side of the radiator. The only problem is in wet weather your feet will be water cooled!

Brian.

The GTD steering rack is I think the Cortina MkV. I change mine as a consumable item at about £17 a go! 1/15th the cost of my brake pads!

Julian, don't forget to raise your rack by 7/16th inch as this will improve bump steer issues.

Malcolm

Interesting opinions. Looking at the front chassis area, I can't see any reason why the steering rack is 'boxed' by the vertical fiberglass sheet, that also forms the front part of the floor & supports the battery.

Surely boxing the rack in with the coolant pipes is the reason for the heat induced wear? Removing the vertical section may help??

I didn't get into any detail on the insulation in the area were Julian is talking about. However here is somemore info. There are lots of different insulating material out there that should solve the problem. Some examples: Welders slag catch blankets; air cell blankets with aluminized facing; High density fiberglass cylinders split into two halves with a hollow center to fit various pipe sizes; numerous wraps for heat guard etc. I found that the the high density fiberglass cylinders, used for covering steam pipes etc. work well when used in conjuction with other materials. All of my water pipes in the sills,under the cover in the passenger seat area,in the steering rack area and up to the radiator are covered with this material when ever possiple. In addition all of the spaces between the frame rails are filled with as much hard foam as possible plus the area between the water pipes and the gas tank is insulated with hard foam. In the steering rack area I use the welders blanket(looks like heavy duty fiberglass roving mat) to cover the foam in the frame in front of the tub down to the bottom of the compartment and around the water pipes. Bye the way be sure that there are small holes in the corners of the floor pan in this area to let any water, that may enter, drain. I then use a seperate piece of the welders blanket to cover the main portion of the steering rack. Once this is all done I fill up most of the area with a combination of fiberglass batting and bagged insulation. I also have a rubber boot that will expand and contract that goes into the hole wre the steering rack exits into the wheel well. this is not completely weather tight but it does elimenate most of the possible water from entering. I than make covers in two or three pieces to cover this steerng rack area. These go under the servos,brake lines etc. and around the pedal box frame and close up th area nicely. In addition I have made a panel that the nostril nests into and forces the radiator air to exit out the nostril or out the vent holes I have in the sheet metal side panels, exiting into the wheel wells. This eleminates the majority of any pressure buildup under the nostril and stops that flow of hot air that you may feel coming thru the steering column exit to the rack. I hope this clarifies how I do it. It has worked well for my GTD.