Pedal Boxes

Looking for some advice on pedal boxes. I am looking at the Tilton units, and am having a bit of difficulty deciding which series to use (74 vs 75). the 74s have a little longer master cylinder. Is that important? I think the universal master cylinder with the remote resevoir is the way to go. However I can't tell which bore size is best. I am sure it all has to do with physics and hydraulic function, but I don't know what bore size is needed, resevoir size, or tubing size,etc, etc, etc.
I think I will also go with the swing pedals, as that is all I have ever known. The ratios seem to be a little better than the floor mounts as well. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Bill
 
Bill
You have a lot of variables there and there are a lot of small changes that will make big differences when you choose which pedals and master cylinders.
I prefer the swing mount pedals for two reasons, fist it keeps all of the mechanicals up off the floorboards, this may seem inconsequencial, but stuff gets really dirty in those hard to reach places like a footwell, second, you will definitely need residual pressure valves in your lines being that the master cylinder(s) are below the calipers. The tiltons have them with the kit if you choose to use them.
Also, most floor mounted pedal boxes have a smaller ratio than swing pedals, this make for more brake effort, or less pressure for the same effort...translation, less braking power.
The swing pedals typically have a 6 to 1 ratio versus 4 1/2 or 5 to one on the flor mounts, and this can make a lot of difference.
Whichever you decide to go with you will probably have a balance bar between two master cylinders, and you will want as much force for your foot pressure that you can comfortably get, as the pressure is basically divided between the two, depending where the bar is set.
A decent foot pressure for stopping is about 75 lbs., with around 100 lbs. being a hard stop, and about 150 lbs. a panic stop, you can multiply these numbers by the pedal ratio and that will give you the input to the master cylinder. Take the diameter of the master cylinder, divide by two, this is the radius.
For instance, a 1" master cylinder has a radius of 1/2", the formula is 3.14 X Rad. X Rad. or PI x Rad Squared, this is the square inch area of the piston, now divide this into your force at the master cyl. and it will give you the hydraulic pressure of the system...typically I try to get a max of 1000 to 1200 PSI, this seems high, but it is easier to have the pressure if you have to back it off some, much harder to add more.
Also, find out about your caliper piston sizes, this will tell you where to start as far as master cylinder sizes. I think you will probably need somewhere around a 7/8" master, but if you do the math you will see that a 1/8" change in diameter can make a difference of 30%, so as I said up front small changes can make big differences.
I have used 3/4 and 7/8 masters with no booster and have not had any problems with stopping, just be careful with the smaller cylinders as I have seen some backyard setups where the calipers were actually spread apart and even split from too much pressure. I recently had a car with too small a master cylinder, and the pedal felt like the cylinder & lines were airbound, actually the calipers were spreading, Not good!....we replaced the master with a 7/8"unit and got a hard pedal with great breaks.
Good Luck
Phil
 
Phil-

Great information regarding selecting the correct pedal ratio. Now correct me if I'm wrong - a smaller bore MC (i.e. - 3/4" or 7/8") will yeild higher brake line pressure. And the opposite effect if you use a larger bore MC (i.e. 1")

Thanks
Bill D
 

Chris Duncan

Supporter
All the 40's I've seen don't have room for top mount pedals. The foot box is so crowded they all use floor mount pedals. Lot's of people even have trouble if they have big feet, you definitely can't drive these things with boots on.

Top mount pedals take about 1/2 again as much room as floor mount, think about it. If the pedal pad is at your toe and the pivot of the pedal is 6 to 8" from there it's going to take up more room if it's above.

The suppliers will advise you on master bore sizes, just tell them your caliper sizes. Tilton or Wilwood are very good about this.

As far as length you probably want the shorter ones, it depends on how much room you have.
 
Kalun,
You must not have looked at many "different" brands of 40's. Several like Erik's I believe and DRB have plenty of room. I know the CAV's are tight in foot room. Can't speak for any others as I haven't seen them yet.How bout it guys???
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Dave Bilyk

Dave Bilyk
Supporter
My DAX40 has top mount Tilton pedals, the Dax may well have more room since it is slightly taller than the other replicas. They are also adjustable fore and aft which helped my long legs enormously.

regards
Dave
 
This is how our new series is outfitted. The pedals are adjustable about 4.5" from the driver's seat, and the steering wheel moves with them (and can also be adjusted separately).
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Neal

Lifetime Supporter
I used a Tilton floor mount. The spread was rather wide so I sectioned the unit by about 3/4" to bring the pedals closer.

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I have just got home after a day at Wealden Engineering spent getting the clutch pedal of a set of top-hung Tiltons in my GTD right for me.
Here is a pic of the installation immediately before we set-to with the hacksaw and welding torch. The final result doesn't look much like this, but fits me very well!
 

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Tony,
Could you send me more pics of your setup as this is exactly what I plan to install as soon as the car returns from the painters. I realize your under dash is different, but it will give me the general layout. Any dimensions would be appreciated. Thanks
Bill
 
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