Fibreglassing suggestions on RF doors

Hi all, My RF needs some glass work and I read the post bodywork which helps me a great deal, thanks to all that contributed.
I need to add over a half inch to my right door as you can see by the pictures. The gap at one point is .70 of an inch and .60 wide consistantly. I was thinking of roughing the underside of the door lip up, Laying a sheet of thin lexan on top of the door to form a mold ,and apply layers of glass cloth to build the area out. Then flip back over do a little grinding again, add some more cloth so that the door is "sandwiched " by the new cloth . Am I going overboard ? I feel this could be a sensitive area, as if passengers might hit or grab sometime, and I need to make it as strong as possible.
The R/H door "fell in the hole " as it came from RF . I will have to add major glass and filler in many areas. The left door would not even go in the opening and I had to trim till it went in(which is great). Reading other posts on RF's body and how some buyers just had to "do a little grinding and sanding" to get the gaps fit,frankly frustrates the crap out of me. Let me know how you would attack this. Thanks, Dan /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Re: Fibreglassing sugestions on RF doors

here is another angle

Re: Fibreglassing sugestions on RF doors

Hi Dan,
Can you post a pic of how the doors fit on the rear of the spider and the front clip and the lower seal panel. I just want to see if you can adjust the doors to fit first before taking on such a huge task, are you trying the doors up with the rubbers in place as well? Have you asked Robert or other RF owners if this is a common problem? I havent heard of other RF owners needing to do this, maybe some others can chime in here and tell me is it common to have to do so much body work to a RF or any other brand of GT40?

Steve

Looks like all the other RFs I have seen. Not the end of the world. Hershal will be able to help. He and I ground my door down and added fiberglass filler (short strain) to the door. Here's what I learned. Tape of the spider. Shut the door and fill in the gap completely, overlapping the top of the freshly ground door. When the filler gets hot and starts to set up, cut the filler along the spider and open the door. From there you will need to sand down the edge to get the appropriate size gap you want. It's messy but worked every well for me. Every RF I've seen (5-7) has the doors like yours. The lips are different sizes and that is just something you need to correct.
This is what is known as "a little grinding and filling" at least in the world of kit cars.
As you mentioned in another post "no kit is perfect" just some better than others.
I hope to get another one in the futurer and RF still on the top of my list.
We'll see what's out there in 2 or 3 years from now.
Fran will you save me a space frame. I just would rather that then a mono. Yours is beautiful but I like Spaceframes.
John

Dan, mine wasn't like yours at all. Mine has had no door work done and fits pretty well. Sorry that yours doesn't seem to do that, but your plan sounds reasonable and I bet it will not be that hard. I've been doing a little glass work myself for some spoilers and find it fairly easy, but I was scared of it at first. Add more than needed, and sand/grind it down. John's idea sounds quite good and would work well. I've only seen three and all three were like mine, fit well.

R

Hi Ron, John and Steve, thanks for the reply. From talking to Hersh , I dont think he has ever seen one this wide either. If they are all taken out of the same mold, then it is the fault of the person "cleaning" up the part afterward at RF ,,,I would guess.
Steve at this point I just want to fix it and get on with it. I do know I will be going through a bunch of material as the door falls "short" on multiple gap areas. Aft edge near bottom , area in pic, area on top fwd door to roof gap, etc,,, John I just didnt think a RF would have panels that you could fit your fingers down through . Hope things are going well with you , by the way.
Ron,I seem to have had certain "luck" with my car from the start. I think all will come out ok in the end, but just take more effort, time and money.
Howard Jones seems like he has been through a bunch with his GT and I think he has some good ideas on his previous post mentioned. I did lots of glass on a previous custom vette I had so I guess I just need to GET ITCHY WITH IT !

Dan, my doors fit just as yours do. I beveled the under side of the door and the top and used some scrap pieces of laminate (Formica) as a mold then glassed it. didn't like the idea of that much filler on the door edge.
Simon

2

3

Also built up about 1/4" of glass on bottom of front & rear clip to close up the gap.

Thanks Simon, great pics ! Looks like you started right off with the rubber seals in place. Mine will need it also on the bottom "foot" of the front and rear clips as well.

Simon..
IMHO this problem comes from the door/spyder being assembled incorrectly from the molds. These pieces both come out of the mold as inner and outer halves, and from experience I know that to bond them together off the chassis creates a lot of problems in the door and windscreen area. We usually set the spyder (both halves) on the chassis, and the inner door panel, align it as it has the hinge pin, then bond the outer door skin. After that the spyder can be bonded together and typically door gaps of 3/16" are easily possible. Also pay close attention to the rear upper door area at the top of the spider "B" pillar, this is a common interference area. I have seen doors fit really nice, but rub at this area. Definitely aligning the doors/spyder is probably one of the most difficult things on a 40.
Regards
Phil

Hi Dan, I just reached the point of frustration you're at now. If 1/4" gaps are acceptable then I'am o/k but they look huge. I think its time to learn fiberglass repair. I did align doors and then installed weatherstrip, this changed the alignment quite a bit.

You guys have thre rubbers in place, correct? Are you planing to use eyebrows or not? The eyebrows change the gap somewhat because they do have a thickness, probably 1/16 - 1/8 an inch. And, they will hide the gap as well. So, it could be that with clever use of the eyebrow, making it a little thicker and glassing it in place, you could really eliminate the gap.

None of this is out of the ordinary with GT40s though. In fact, from sampling a number of different makes and builds RF's glass is very good. I've seen what some people have started with and thought - man, you got a long road ahead.
R

Hi Jim and Ron, Jim yours looks pretty good to start with. If you add the eyebrows you may have to remove a little. With mine if I put the seal on , the "wiper" of the seal does not even touch the door , since there isnt any door there close enough, haha
Since I'm having to add so much I'm thinking at this point to try and leave out the eyebrows and make some sort of "support guide" .
Ron I remember asking about how much work is involved to getting a RF close to paint , before I ordered my kit. The answer was vague and "better than others" . I guess I should have pressed for a better answer , /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Well, I would definitely say "better than others" based on the ones I've seen in partial assembly. Still, it is a lot of hours. I think, don't quote me and it might be on the forum somewhere, that Hershal had 300+ hours in his to get it ready for paint, the paint being the smallest part of the job of course.

From the data I've collected about GT40 builds over the years 250-400 hours to get a body ready to go is "good" while some take more. Still, it is a lot of time and a lot of sweat.

For me I didn't have the time. If I was going to race, and it was clear I was going to do that no matter what, then the GT40 would be complete sometime in 2008 or so with the time I could devote to it.

Just get itchy with it! Call some friends, by the beer, and I'd bet with a good work crew you could have that thing done in 7-8 weeks with some work buddies and schedule you stick to.

Ron

Re: Fibreglassing sugestions on RF doors

Dan & Jim, I have no idea of what the inside of the roof looks like on each of your respective vehicles but barring the additional glass work that Simon had to do down the side of his door, and if it is feasible, I would probably leave the doors alone and cut the roof legnth wise (not the entire legnth, just the legnth of the door) about one inch in from the edge of the bad door. Then I would pull that piece out to mate the door and just fiberglass that in from the underside of the roof. This in essence would make the center section of the roof between the doors an additional 1/2-3/4 inch wider or whatever the space you need to make up and you will retain the weatherstrip lip. The body work should be alot simplier to do. You would just need to use a long board to make the roof flat. If however you have to add to the side pillar of the door like Simon, I would do what he has done. Just my 2 cents. Good luck and have fun.

Re: Fibreglassing sugestions on RF doors

Dan et all,

The moulds were made from an original car that had been involved in an accident on the left hand side. The car was originally like a "banana" and there was over 600 hours spent on correcting the shape and more importantly getting the gaps correct. There were still areas that could be improved on as there is always but I decided with a cost / benefit analysis that the bodywork was "good" enough. This word "good" will obviously now come under scrutiny by some poeople but I ask you to completely read this thread before condemming me.

At Roaring Forties we have NEVER had gaps as you have described (3/4"). We have had to add materials to the front clip on the bottom left and very occasionally some to the rear clip (right side) but not to your extent.

I think the most important thing here is that we take some 120 hours to fit up the body to a car and that it is not a week-end job.

The gap on the inside of the right hand door is for the "eyebrow" and the left door must be releaved to allow the "eyebrow" to fit.

The whole secret is to position the spider correctly (I here you all ask give me the dimensions). The slightest movement of the spider magnifies hughly to the front and rear of the car.

My first thoughts Dan are that the spider is not in the correct position. I have had a guy in Australia tell me when I told him that , that it is staying where it is (the spider) and I will make the rest fit. This he did but I still believe that his overall finish could have been much better with a little more initial work. As I have already said , my staff take 120 hours and they have done the job MANY times before.

Regarding the "good" enough bit I mentioned earlier, we have before Christmas spent almost another 3 months improving the moulds for South Africa for the NEW cars. The misalignment of the inner and outter skins of the left hand door have been corrected as has the angular difference between the front clip and the windscreen. I actually believe that we have gone a little to far in that the finish is TOO good as compared to original cars.

The reason for doing the job just before Christmas is that it had come to the top of my list of jobs to be done. I am constantly striving for that next level. I look at everything we do today and ask myself how can we do it better?

The moulds of ALL the cars we have produced to date have all come from the same set of moulds and there will be very little difference between the pieces because the moulds are supported with steel framing and cannot distort that much.

Finally I wish that the bodywork was as easy as a Cobra. One piece for the complete body with a few 2 dimensional (almost) pieces for doors, bonet etc fitted. The GT40 will never be that simple.

I urge all that are fitting the bodies to take your time (approximately 60% of the time to skin the car with aluminium) and remember that the quality of the finished car is pivotal on thequality of your door fits.

Any of Roaring Forties customers are always welcome to contact the factory for further advise if wanted and I would encourage this at all times. Remember to always measure twice and cut once.

Best wishes,

Robert

Re: Fibreglassing sugestions on RF doors

Interesting approach, Gregg...there's always more than one way to skin a cat, especially when doing fiberglass work.

Dan, I would measure things up before deciding which way to proceed. Get a perpendicular from the chassis rails on each side and use that to locate the mid-point of the spyder between the doors. If that corresponds with the midpoint of the spyder as you have it mounted, then I'd glass the door edge using Simon's method (feathering the edges in to give the glass something to stick to). If the midpont derived from the chassis is offset relative to the midpoint on your spyder as mounted, then I'd use Gregg's method.

Mine didn't look at all like that, Dan. As far as I know, all RFs need the extra thickness on the bottom of the front clip like SImon has shown, but my glass work was pretty damn good out of the box.

Re: Fibreglassing sugestions on RF doors

Guys thanks for all your comments. I have to make this post fast as its late and i have to get up in less than 6 hours for work. Heres some stuff off the top of my head.
1. I rechecked my spider location tonight before coming in for the night, the lower sides of the spider stick out 30 mm from the frame rails. I also used a tool Jim Dewar was nice enough to send to me that clamps to the frame rail and helps you achieve the proper location when I located it a while back. 2.The door in question , R/H , when in place , the C pillar as I call it is flush with the outside door skin, like you would want it to be. If you forced the door further toward the center of the spider to close the gap it would have a big mis-match along this plane previous mentioned.I am speaking of the top corner "step" as well as where the air duct is on the side of the door.
3. When the rear clip is in place it lines up rather nicely and naturally with the 30mm placement of the spider.
4.I can take pictures of all these things if you all wish but the reason I started this post was to get the best ways to "add" on to the glass in this area.I didnt want it to spin off into areas like some posts.
5.If it is thought that I may have trimmed too much off the R/H door , rest assure I am man enough to admit it if I did. , so let me say this.
I HAVE NOT TRIMMED ANY FIBREGLASS OFF THE R/H DOOR .
If someone wants to question this I will shoot macro pics of the edge with the dark mold areas left on it and YOU WILL be eating crow. I do make mistakes, and this aint one of them. I have crashed race cars, drilled holes where they shouldnt have been and many others in my life .
6. Gregg talk about thinking outside the box !!! I'll have to look at that posibility on Monday .
Well I gotta crash , wife just came in to get me to bed. take care, Dan