Spacer question

It seems like I need a 15mm spacer on my rear wheels to enable me to clear my calipers.
Nobody makes these, so I'm going to have to have them fabricated.
Now, normal spacers just move the wheel away from the hub by whatever amount, relying on just the studs to hold the wheels in place ( Am I right there?) whereas, without the spacers, the wheel locates on the raised section in the middle of the wheel (I think it's 63.5mm in dia)
Would it be sensible to have spacers made to replicate this "raised section" to enable the wheel to locate properly?
I can draw and scan a picture if anyone's confused
Thanks
Simon

Simon

I had spacers abour 3mm 1/8inch on my Formula V 1600.

They appeared to be the cause of losing a wheel with the extra force applied through the studs.(Stripped all 5 bolts from the drum!)

I removed the spacers and never had any more problems.

I (IMO) would not recomend this method as the turning, bending braking forces will all be transmitted through the existing studs and they will probably not survive. Really the law of levers I suppose.

Probably not what you wanted to hear but my 2c worth

What wheels / tyres are you using and can a different set be tried for a different fir? I for instance have 15" halibrands that could be available for Stoneleigh

Regards
Ian

Fitting spacers is not a problem as long as you ensure you use longer bolts/studs to go with them. And as Ian says keep an eye on them.

Most of the Porsche 993 S's came from the factory with spacers so they didn't have to produce a new set of rims with a different offset to suit the wider body. I'd therefore say if they were happy to ship a mass produced car with spacers they should be okay.

There are spacers available with the bearing flange on them too.
I forget the name of the place but they are located at castle combe. I'm pretty sure they sell them.
Having this raised bit is not essential but if you can get them, go for it.

Thanks Ian,

I have no intention of using the car in competition, but obviously safety is important. If I can get spacers made with the "ridge" (sorry, don't know how best to describe it) then the wheels will be located positively and not just relying on the studs. I had a set of spacer delivered today (they were incorrect so I sent them back) but it made me think that ALL the loads would be taken by the studs.
It seems to me that using a spacer with a "ridge" machined in, should be pretty much as safe as no spacers at all.
Simon

Simon
Try Deemon Tweeks http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/catalogue/...&PCODE=AILDR050

Demon tweeks are who supplied the wrong spacers 5mm instead of 15 and four stud.
I've spoken to LOTS of people, but there are no granada spacers!

Simon,

Just a thought, how about trying a different bell & caliper mounting to move the caliper inwards more??

Alternatively, it may be worth considering having a new wheel centre machined up by someone like Image.

FWIW the shop at Castle coombe that John W refers to is 'Merlin Motorsport', they have a web site.

HTH!

yep, tried them as well

Simon,
Do be cautious about using wide spacers, no matter how well they are machined. Whether for road use only or not the extra loads exerted on the studs may not be the only concern. Consider your wheel bearings also and the imbalance of loading that you will be applying with that amount of spacing.

Regards,

Graham @ GTA Racing.

Simon, do not use any spacers without the central locating boss machined as part of them, wheel studs are not designed to take these loads, the locating boss is. Graham is correct in that using spacers will place extra loads upon the wheel bearings, the bigger the spacer the bigger the load, only you can decide on that one but have you also checked that your tyres will still clear the bodywork if you widen the track by 30mm? Also worth consideration would be the changes to the front and rear track relationship, if your car is neutral through corners now it may not be if you change one and not the other. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif anyone for a can of worms /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

15 mm is a little more than 5/8" right? Now thats a nice big spacer. How about having a look at the hat offset. You should be able to center the caliper on the rotor by using a wider hat or calpier mount. Maybe you can place the caliper on the other side of the caliper mounting adapter.

Have a good look at this stuff first. I know it can be a hassel to do this right but its worth it.

Re: Spacer question / Wheel studs removal ?

Simon,

I am also upgrading my rear brakes and i have the same problem, the calipers doesn't match without using a spacer for the wheel. I am drawing my adaptive bells for the discs which will do also the spacer.
Today my trouble is how to remove the 5 studs(M12X150 if i'm not wrong) as is must put longer ones ? I tried with a hammer but no way, the stud doesn't move at all. Do i have to remove the complete hub and use a hydraulic press to push the studs ? Anyone already did that ? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Re: Spacer question / Wheel studs removal ?

On my GTD I have used a hammer (with a nut on top of each stud. It comes out fine. I would recommend against using longer studs, try these guys.
http://www.skulte.com/adapters.html
I use their product on the rear, and it is much safer.

Re: Spacer question / Wheel studs removal ?

I've also just always used hammer with nut on top of studs to remove them. What I always do first though is give stud a good soaking front & back with WD40(CRC) spray and leave penetrate for a while. If you really have problems, could heat up the area around stud a little with oxy to help it coming out.

But as above...look at modifying the brakes first. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Re: Spacer question / Wheel studs removal ?

Fred,

If you can find it, try soaking them in "PB Blaster"
(an amazing penetrating oil)for a day,
then give them the "nut and hammer" treatment.


Bill

Simon,

You will absolutely have to have the ridge which centers the wheel. Prerequisites are of course that you get the longer bolts, and increase the wheel offset to avoid an increase in track width. Increasing the wheel offset will also keep the bearing loads at the same level as before.
The bolts' only job is to take the shear forces from braking or acceleration, whereas the ridge makes sure the wheel stays centered.
Another take might be to increase rim diameter, if the objective is only to clear the brake calipers, but I suppose you've ruled that one out.

Fred
Aside from removing the hub and using a press...which IMHO is slow but pretty safe, I had the same problem and made a tool. Essentially a "C" shaped piece of metal with approx 3/4 hole (18mm) in the bottom and a screw from a puller I had broken. Slip it over the flange, tighten it up and a little tap or two and the stud will move. I have also seen a c clamp used with a socket and this is what gave me the idea.
Good luck
Phil

Guys,

Thanks for your comments finaly i succeed in removing my studs by placing a big hammer behind the hub which allows it to avoid vibrating; by the way when i hammered (with a nut on the top of course) the stud, it slided slowly.
Now the next step is to take all the correct dimensions to make machined the brackets for the calipers and the bells for the discs, no error allowed .. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Last point, in my mind the wheels are centered by the the 5 conical nuts, the bridge on the center is only there to make a precentering of the wheel. If you mesure the inside of the wheel it is 1 to 2 mm larger than the bridge.

""the wheels are centered by the the 5 conical nuts, the bridge on the center is only there to make a precentering of the wheel. If you measure the inside of the wheel it is 1 to 2 mm larger than the bridge""

That would be a universal fit lugcentric wheel.

There are two different ways a wheel centers on the hub. Lugcentric, and hubcentric. Hubcentric is by far preferred. Only budget universal fit wheels use lugcentric due to costs of needing to have a different wheel for every application or a precision set off adapters with the hubcentric method.

All the major manufactures of production autos use hubcentric without exception.

While it's true that the lugs take the sheer force in braking and acceleration the hub in the hubcentric method takes the far greater sheer loads of suspension bump impact.

Not only is hubcentric stronger it is also more precise in centering due to the design characteristics. With lugcentric 5 wheel holes, five lug holes, five lugs and five lug nuts all have to be precise, with hubcentric only one hub and one center wheel hole have to be precise. Imprecise centering is more noticeable at the higher speeds most 40's are capable of. If you have a high speed vibration that won't go away with a good wheel balance it may be lugcentric wheels.

This is an interesting topic to me because I just spent about 20 hours making some hubcentric adapters on the lathe for my Team III's out of 6061 T6, what a PITA.

+++++++++

The easiest way to remove studs is with a brass hammer. If the hub is off the car open the bench vise enough to clear the stud and rest the hub with the stud centered on the opening, smack hard with the brass hammer.

Re: Spacer question / Wheel studs removal ?

"What I always do first though is give stud a good soaking front & back with WD40(CRC) spray and leave penetrate for a while."

contrary to popular opinion and what is advertised on the can, WD40 IS NOT an effective penetrant. It hardly has any wicking action whatsoever. This is from years of rust restorations and rusty/seized bolt removal.