Mk IV in KarKraft shop 1967
- Thread starter speed220mph
- Start date
The "replica" J5 is spottable by the "FORD" being in white rather than black as it was on J5.
Rick
Rick
On a more serious note, the damaged honeycomb was replaced by plywood laminated with aluminum sheet. If you'll remember, Andretti was involved in a crash just after leaving the pits. He forgot to pump the brakes after the pads were replaced, consequently late braking was too late.
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Also note over the rear quarter of the Mk IV the Mustang Mach 1 mid engined show car....one of two built.
Rick
Rick
Rick: There were three Mach II's. One was a show version. The one you see in the background in the above photo of the Mk IV was the super-light race version at just a bit over 1,700 lb. Power was a Bud Moore 302 driving through a ZF transaxle. Pictured below is the bare chassis of the third car. Shown is a torsional rigidity test I was doing on it, which indicated we needed to add a few diagonals in the rear section.
Car was faster than the Mk IV on the short Dearborn test track. Alan Moffat test drove the car while he was playing third fiddle in the TransAm series.
Car was faster than the Mk IV on the short Dearborn test track. Alan Moffat test drove the car while he was playing third fiddle in the TransAm series.
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Speed 220, that's cool that you have first-hand knowledge. What's your first name, anyway?
From this picture it looks like the engine is sitting directly over the rear axle, suggesting it's an engine/transaxle combo. Is that true or was it another ZF?
From this picture it looks like the engine is sitting directly over the rear axle, suggesting it's an engine/transaxle combo. Is that true or was it another ZF?
My first name, I can remember that, it's Tom.
About your second question, I wasn't that involved in the car you pictured, albeit somewhat familiar. The transaxle was similar to a FWD like that used in the Olds Toronado. Further than that, I don't know.
Regards, Tom
About your second question, I wasn't that involved in the car you pictured, albeit somewhat familiar. The transaxle was similar to a FWD like that used in the Olds Toronado. Further than that, I don't know.
Regards, Tom
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Tom,
I was unaware that there were three. I know of the two plastic bodied units as seen in the MK IV picture. The one on the show circuit was dark red if I recall. I also remember they were built off a Mustang convertible platform with a wlhole lotta cutting done....the converts had the extra inner rocker panel that served as a the main chassis member on the Mach. Were the toeboard/dash panels cut down or did they carry the same hard points as the Mustang?
Rick
I was unaware that there were three. I know of the two plastic bodied units as seen in the MK IV picture. The one on the show circuit was dark red if I recall. I also remember they were built off a Mustang convertible platform with a wlhole lotta cutting done....the converts had the extra inner rocker panel that served as a the main chassis member on the Mach. Were the toeboard/dash panels cut down or did they carry the same hard points as the Mustang?
Rick
Rick: You're right about the convertible chassis being used. All hard points were maintained as the Mach II was fabricated from a body in white. The only structural members removed were those behind the front seats to make room for the engine, transmission and suspension members. New structure was added to make up for what was removed as evidenced by the torsional rigidity and bending tests to confirm where they should go.
As a matter of interest, the Mustang convertible was the stiffest productin car chassis in the world at the time at over 7,000 ft-lb/degree of twist. Compare that to over 10,000 ft-lb/degree of twist for the Mk IV tub.
As a matter of interest, the Mustang convertible was the stiffest productin car chassis in the world at the time at over 7,000 ft-lb/degree of twist. Compare that to over 10,000 ft-lb/degree of twist for the Mk IV tub.
I notice the ZF is installed in the "GT40" posistion rather than the "Pantera" posistion (flipped).
I never knew how developed the Mach was, I always assumed it was just a rough "mule" and more of a show car than a development unit. I have seen some Ford "mules" that were really rough and cobbled together.
I recall seeing a front drive mule van at Autodynamics circa 1980 that had been built using the twin I beam front suspension from a Bronco driven via a trannsfer case that had the front/rear split locked to put all the torque through the front. A cut down Econoline body/chassis was the host. this had been done in the late 70's as a concept for a "small, garagable van" (the term minivan had not yet been coined) but Ford thought it was going nowhere.....some guys over at Chyrsler however.........
Rick
I never knew how developed the Mach was, I always assumed it was just a rough "mule" and more of a show car than a development unit. I have seen some Ford "mules" that were really rough and cobbled together.
I recall seeing a front drive mule van at Autodynamics circa 1980 that had been built using the twin I beam front suspension from a Bronco driven via a trannsfer case that had the front/rear split locked to put all the torque through the front. A cut down Econoline body/chassis was the host. this had been done in the late 70's as a concept for a "small, garagable van" (the term minivan had not yet been coined) but Ford thought it was going nowhere.....some guys over at Chyrsler however.........
Rick
The Mach II was about handling, so we got the engine as low as possible, thus the transaxle orientation.
Here's another picture, a MkIV on the surface plate with the Mach II show car in the background. The MkIV was undergoing a coversion to a G7-A CanAm car. The second photo shows the three-valve engine in the G7-A.
Here's another picture, a MkIV on the surface plate with the Mach II show car in the background. The MkIV was undergoing a coversion to a G7-A CanAm car. The second photo shows the three-valve engine in the G7-A.
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Brake pads/ J cars
I thought Andretti said that the brake pad was put in the wrong way round!
Also in one of the recent British car magazines I found a picture of the white J car being modified into it's final MKIV form.
Regards Allan
speed220mph said:
I thought Andretti said that the brake pad was put in the wrong way round!
Also in one of the recent British car magazines I found a picture of the white J car being modified into it's final MKIV form.
Regards Allan
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Allen: You're right, that's what Mario said. I believed the same thing until I talked with someone who actually knew what happened. Again, Mario neglected to bring the new pads up against the rotors by pumping the brakes before he actually had to use them. Keep in mind, those were the days drivers found excuses for crashing that weren't their faults! You don't suppose they still do it?
The funniest one was Tom Sneva's crash at Indy during the parade lap. He pulled off the steering wheel to reposition it, then couldn't get it back on quick enough to save the car!
The funniest one was Tom Sneva's crash at Indy during the parade lap. He pulled off the steering wheel to reposition it, then couldn't get it back on quick enough to save the car!
This setup was done after the Mach II I pictured. The car was done in an effort to reduce costs using a C6 automatic with a transfer case. T&C (Transmission and Chassis division) nixed the deal if a transaxle was used, i.e., the ZF. And Ford wouldn't build a car of any kind that didn't use all Ford driveline components. It would cost them too much to tool up for a low-volume car. We ran into this all the time when dealing with the degreed pin-head Product Planners. I can tell you of many such stories. Cars we had on the boards and in prototype were killed by the planners. The mini van, FWD T-Bird (became a Toronado) and 90-inch wheelbase, Cosworth powered two seater are three examples.
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Bob Bracey told me a couple years ago that the ring and pinion from the T44 was from the FWD T Bird or the rear engine Mustang, I can't remember. From the pictures it looks like it was probably the FWD T Bird. Weisman was going to use them in there own transaxle but never did.
Bill
Mario's bronze car did have white Ford lettering. Wonder why they kept it when the repainted it red?
Bill
Mario's bronze car did have white Ford lettering. Wonder why they kept it when the repainted it red?
I have seen that trans set-up in pictures of the prototype/mule 1961 FWD T-Bird. My understanding is that T&C didn't have CV joints that could take the 390 FEs torque with out "warranty" issues so the program was nixed. The T-Bird FWD was pre-C6 era so it used a medium case MX trans (or possible the large case from the Lincoln, in the pictures i saw you could not tell)
Rick
Rick
VintageVenom said:
Notice that the carrier is a "N" (nodular) case unit....taking no chances.....
Rick
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