260Z and Ron Out At Roebling, Sept 2007

This past weekend I finally got to run a sprint race at Roebling Road. I have been to this track FIVE times in attempts to race. However, all I have ever managed to do was break, catch fire, oil something down, and drink a lot in Savannah after doing all the aforementioned. But this weekend I got to race!

The race was the Southeast Invitational Challenge, the SIC. Sounds classy doesn’t it? And I got an invitation! Truth is, anybody with a running car that has competing in three points races gets and invite. I’ve finished dead last in two and sixth in one, so I got an invite. Woo whee!

I have always been apprehensive of Roebling. I’ve been down crewing for Jeff Young in the TR8 many times and each time down I always saw a car totaled. In fact, I always saw a few cars totaled. In 2005 Jeff was driving the 260Z I now owned (we co-owned it then) and one fellow took the 260Z out along with four other cars, two of them totaled. The Z was down for many months. I have never had a good feeling about the track.

The track layout is simple. It is also extremely fast. With long sweepers and a long straight the average speed here is higher than any other track we race on. 90+mph is the average race pace for the ITS class (ITS cars 160-190 rwhp, 2400 to 2700 lbs, limited engine mods, moderate/high suspension mods) I race in, compared to 78-80 mph for the same class at VIR. Couple that speed with a sandy lose topsoil run offs and rollovers are common. There isn’t a lot of runoff either. And temperatures are always hot in Georgia. The weekend temps were in the low-mid 90s and this is September. Summer highs are almost always 95-105F and it makes the track surface slick.

I drove the track for the first time on Friday at the test day. It was raining most that day and about the best I could manage in the wet was a 1:38 or so. I don’t have rain tires and I went out on some shaved Toyo RA1s with some groves on their surface. They worked reasonably well and I didn’t go off track or hit anything. A later dry session got me down to a 1:30, but that was still far off of a race pace of 1:26 to 1:20.

On Saturday we had a morning qualifying session that was dry. I went out on some new Hoosiers and was able to break into a 1:26 with five laps on the tires before coming in to let them set up for the evening. New Hoosiers must be driven to be experienced, just a fantastic race tire where slicks are not allowed. I enjoyed the track. I got into the rhythm fairly quickly and built up speed on each lap. Maybe sleeping on my initial experience helped out.

Turn one is a really interesting experience at Roebling because you are coming off of an extremely long straight that has you topped out in fourth gear (in my Z) at 7000-7300 RPM. You stab the brakes at the 2-3 marker to set the car, turn in, and hang on. Point toward a late apex, do your braking at that point, then turn the wheel, stomp the gas, and get out of the 1-2 turn complex. Good stuff.

The turns after that are long sweepers too but the interesting thing is they should be taken flat out (or close to it) with your foot to the floor. Turn three is next, a left hander, and it is taken with a mid-entry line and late apex. You must stay left on exit because you’ll be braking heavily to set up for the right hander. Lots of action here as the track is tight and speeds high. Clearly I am not to the point of taken the turns flat out and my laps times show it. But I am learning. You definitely need to trust in the force, have big balls, or whatever it is you need to go fast.

After turn four and five you enter into a nice carousel that is a lot of fun. You can go low on entry for blocking of your buddy behind you. Or you can square it off with some braking, turn and stab some throttle. Or if in a well handling but low torque car you try and smoothly drift on through without a lot of speed variation. Exit to this leads to turn eight which is a type one corner – right onto the straight, so you need to get this one right for best speed. S/he who gets on the throttle earliest here and stays on it ends up winning the drag race down to turn one.

Just two weeks ago I put a new motor in the Z. Good parts and attention to detail in hopes this one would last a couple of seasons. I’m also building up a couple of extra spares since I have a friend who is building a 260z as well. Break in occurred at the track on the test day and everything had been going smoothly.

Sunday rolls around and it is race day. Our group is the first group after quiet hour from 11am to noon. So, we spent most of the morning cleaning up, checking things, and making sure everything is right. At 1040am, 20 minutes before quiet hour, Jeff fires up his TR8 and finds a stream of water running down the manifold valley. Uh oh. The manifold bleed housing is cracked at the base and is spraying water out at an alarming rate. He is devastated and figures he won’t be able to make the race at noon. I figured things might be over too because the housing was cracked badly.

But, we talked about it and I figured we had to be able to fix the problem. I sent him out for water and ice (water to fill the system up with, ice for our cool suits because it was extremely hot) and I starting taking the bleed out of the manifold. I tried to patch it up from the outside with JB Quik but a subsequent run at 10:55, five minutes to quiet hour, showed that didn’t work at all. So, I came up with plan B and took the manifold housing off so that I could get to the lower part of the bleed housing from the inside. 30 mins of trashing later I had applied a patch of JB Weld covered with silicone rubber to the underside of the bleed opening. This would prevent water from even getting to the cracked part, I hoped.

The problem was we couldn’t properly burp the system or test to see if it leaked. At noon there would be a call to grid and the race would start five minutes later. Jeff got back at 1145am with water and ice, we filled up the system, and at 1155am we both suited up for the race, sweating like pigs with our minds definitely not on racing. Noon rolls around, the group is called to grid and engines are fired.

A 240Z has the pole, with a BMW 323i in second place, followed by some Acura Integras, 2nd Generation RX7s, 280z, TR8, 260Z, etc. Good mix of cars. Jeff is starting in 6th place in class, I’m starting about 10th or 11th. We’ve got 30+ cars in the group so it’ll be an interesting start.

On the pace lap John Williams, who has the 240z pole, hold the speed down to a crawl behind the pace lap. As the pole winner he gets to set the starting speed and he chooses a speed that suits him – slow. He has a torque advantage over the 323i and RX7s he’ll be competing with. Suits Jeff fine, he has more torque than anyone, and suits me well too, the 260z isn’t lacking for torque either in a class with a lot of 2L motors.

The green flag drops, the race starts. I’m flat to the floor in third, then fourth as we hit about 125-130mph down into turn one. I haven’t lost position yet, and there has been no carnage, a good start. Around one and two, then looking ahead I see a TR8 off left and struggling to get under control. Jeff drops a few places, but gets back on just in front of me after I checked up and held a few cars up. Around we go through turns 3,4,5,6,7. I’ve got a 280z and RX7 right on me all the way, waiting for an opening.

Back out onto the turn for the straight, flat out in 3rd, then in 4th. I’m about 8 car lengths behind the TR8 and an Acura when suddenly the Acura washes out left, but, he struggles to bring it back on, too much, oh, WHAM! He loses it right beside the TR8 into the inside wall, crunched bad. We’re approaching at about 120mph and I brake up a bit too much, whoosh, the 280z and RX7 get by me. Dammit!

And around we go a few more times. I manage to get back around the RX7 in a torque drive off a corner, but the 280z I can’t get. I’m faster in the twisty bits but since he is in front of me he’s limiting my drives off corners because I’ll have to lift before tagging him. I don’t have an abundance of power on his car, in fact, he probably has me by 10 ft lbs and 10-15 hp I’d bet. But I’m on the gas earlier and that pays off to a point.

I’m trying to get around the 280z while fending off the RX7 with defensive corner positions. It is working, but I’m not making much headway on the 280z. Then, on lap 11 I notice my water temp is at 200F going into turn one. Out of turn two it is 210F. Not good. Got to figure out why – maybe all the drafting tucked up with the 280z is cutting my airflow?

Busy through turns 3,4,5 and then exiting five I see 270F on the gauge, holy smokes, literally. I shut down immediately and drive off left to the flag stand. I spend the rest of the race there drinking water and watching the conclusion. The 280Z wins the race, however the third place finisher, Steve Eckrich, only needed to win 3rd to win the season on points, which he happily did. Nice guys, all of them, and Steve has been pursuing the title for many years.

My race was ended by a water pump belt. The belt flew off sometime in lap ten and I overheated. Pure and simple. Head gasket it gone too, but the motor had 60 psi of oil pressure on shutdown and I hope she’s okay. I’ll put a new head gasket on this weekend. My fault on the belt – I meant to tension it as I made a mental note to do so but the events in the morning of the race overshadowed my memory.

Jeff finished his race intact and the water patch held. The car ran 190F the entire race and ran well. He needed to move up one position in the race to get enough points to move to 5th place in the SAARC standing. He didn’t make it unfortunately, but he finished 6th overall for the season, a great result for us! I say us because if I’m not working on my car, I’m working on that one and it has been a long road to get the TR8 from a back marker to a front runner. 2008 might see a TR8 up there in the top three!

Despite the result I had a fantastic race from my perspective and I definitely want more. Roebling is a fun track to race, although not such a fun place to work on cars and hang out has I have on all my previous visits.

Next racing is up at VIR in about a month and I’ll be there!

Oh, and Cool Suits, you have to get one if you race. I made mine and it works great. A tshirt with tubing sewn all over the surface, a cooler, sump pump, and ice. Bolt the cooler in the car, mount up the pump in the cooler, get some dry break connectors to hook it all up and you’ll be racing cool with ice water cooling you off. You can see my attempt #1 in the photo below, we’ll be fixing that up with some dry break connectors to avoid the "long hose" issue there in the photo.

Ron

Ron,

I have found myself telling myself that if it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all.

Sounds like you are going to be ready for VIR, using your last outing as a great learning experience. Your story was very entertaining, and I enjoyed hearing about your weekend of racing.

Keep your racing exploits up to date being posted here when you can. It is great reading!!! Good luck at VIR.

Is that one of those penis enlargement things they keep trying to sell me via email? I might make my own cool suit based on your design Ron.Let me know what connectors you use.Great run down on the racing it is an enjoyable read, now I understand what people get out of my ramblings.Check you have a 3 row radiator Ron. 2 row is no good and that's from experience. I accidentally slotted a 2 row in my Z and it overheated within a couple of laps.

Ross

Ron,
Straight Six motors are probably the most susceptible to tossing belts due to harmonics-next time your checking the ign timing with a strobe light run the motor up thru its rev range and watch the belt, at some point it will develop a 'snake', usually just as it leaves the crank pulley. Make up a sturdy bracket or lug that is just clear of the belt OD to ensure the belt can not jump the pulley it is about to enter rotation wise . Sometimes going to a smaller crank pulley will help as it reduces actual belt speed.

Perhaps you could adapt the radiator overflow hose to the fitting on the 'cool suit', that way any engine overheating problems would get your immediate attention and you would be in absolutely no doubt as to which action to take to prevent further damage-to anything!

Jac Mac

Damned belt!!!!
I agree with Jac Mac - You can also rig an additional spring loaded tensioner in the system which will help the belt maintain its profile..
I hope your rings and exhaust valve guides survived the excursion to the higher temps..

I also have a cool suit and I know for a fact that it helped me win more than one race where my competition was clearly not thinking straight due to heat and exhaustion.. Mine has dry-breaks and I can't take "cool" pictures like yours..

Glad you fellows liked it.

The cool shirt is here:
eBay Motors: BRAND NEW LARGE SHORT SLEEVED WHITE HOODED COOL SHIRT (item 180163770647 end time Oct-03-07 14:27:12 PDT)

Don't buy the rest of the system, it costs $400 all together. I got a shirt for $62 (email the guy, he'll sell direct without Ebay fees) and added $30 in cooler, sump pump, fittings, and tubing. Easy to make, I'll take some pictures and put them up today. It works like a champ and I used my "AC" tag from Jim Cowden to mark the switch on the panel!

Jac, I have not thought of that about the harmonics. I will do what you say and make a "Keeper" of some sorts. What if I folded some metal into a "L" shape and used a bolt to hold that on while the long part of the L held over the belt?

This car always runs 175-180F and has a good cooling system, when the belt is tuning the water pump! Nice aluminum 3 core, just the right size, with good ducting to the radiator.

Next outing I'll have my digital cameras installed. I have tested them on the bench all rigged up, but I have not made a wiring harness and got them all mounted and wired into the car. I have pre-wired a 5 amp circuit breaker for them and have a switch on the panel, but that is all. When done you'll need to flip that switch and press one button to record onto solid state SD memory card. Should make it easy to get video. I also have two cameras and you can use a SPDT switch to go between them.

Good time down there at Roebling. Jeff Young did a great job this year with the TR8. If he would have had just one or two more top places finishes in some of the races he DNFed he could have been battling for 3rd place in the points - now that is some progress and testament to his driving and hard work on the car. Things are looking for for our racing efforts.

Ron

if I may make a suggestion. Go to Ebay (or call your local Orthopedic surgery friend) and procure a Polar Care post surgery cooling system .It is exactly like a Cool Suit set up. The attachments are the same and all you will need is a shirt and aconverter since they usually run on house current. You can find a used Polar bear(other companies also, Donjoy ect ) for 25-40 bucks and it looks right. chuck

BREG POLAR CARE 500 LITE KNEE ICE COLD THERAPY NR - (eBay item 170152041674 end time Sep-29-07 15:02:22 PDT)

Shoot, just scrolled down to see if there were any pictures as no time to read all the post today. Hmmmm, not sure I should have done so with that picture! Will find out the significance of the tube later!

Ron,
Remember the belt is going to 'snake' with the harmonics anyway, its just one of those things you have to live with, so any 'L' or 'Channel' section guide that you make up should have a smooth radius at each end to guide the belt in and prevent damage. A bearing race with side fences will accomplish the same thing. Biggest thing you can do is reduce the belt speed with smaller pulleys, but this has limitations where the small pulley may not have enough surface grip to drive the pump & alternator due to belt slippage.

Oop's, nearly forgot, I,m with Randy on the rings-valves-head & gasket-- If you 'saw' 270° then you can bet the spikes inside were a damn sight higher!

Jac Mac

My first time out there was with a Testarossa I had and it was a little scary, but now I love that track and next month I'll be there with my 911.

Great read, Ron, thanks.

When are we going to read of your antics in the Lola?

As soon as we can get it on track. The Lola is at the cage builder and he's about 3/4 of the way through.

For what it is worth the 240Z that won the race on Sunday against a lot of modern iron ran some 1:20:XX (new pavement, he ran a 1:21:XX on the old pavement). I wonder what a GT40, Lola, or other such car has run at Roebling?

I might kick around and see if I can find some times. These SCCA IT cars do have a lot of development and years of racing experience behind them, they are probably
surprisingly fast for their power level.

Ron

Ron, can I offer a couple of well intended suggestions , and some comments ?
Comment 1. I have a trailer like yours.. ! It is a snow mobile trailer. I thought I had the only one south of the mason dixon line.
2. 56 seconds-Hurley Haywood-Porsche 962
I believe my best is a 1:09 and a 1:11 is usual race speed for a group 7 Lola.
3. This is the suggestion part- You say stab the brakes, stab the throttle etc and this leads me to believe you are driving Roebling like a big autocross course. This kills your momentum. If you drive this way in a v8 mid engine lola it could kill you as well. Pretend there are eggs on the controls. Full throttle is great, but roll it on. Ditto for the brakes.
I know you know this, so I'll shut up.
4. Roebling turn 4 can be entered from the right side of the track,because it just can. Makes an excellent passing zone as everyone goes to the left. No problem on the right side entry for me anyway and a lot of the guys I race with. you just track out earlier and it is not a problem .This allows a much faster turn three, to set up the pass. Once around the target, it does not matter if you have to do 4 a little slower as you completed the pass going into a tight area of the track, making a re-pass unlikely.
5.I can not go into turn 5 as it is too complicated.
6. Turn 6 is really the start of the straight and as such is important.
Roebling is a safe track if you do not try to pich it back in at turn 8 and if you do not try to over rotate your car if you go off in the sand. You come away thinking you have mastered that track, and then next time a guy in a potentially slower car passes you. Always something left to learn at Roebling. It is not a horsepower track. Radicals (Flat out) can do it faster than a Can Am car (having to feather the throttle in the corners).

Hey Johan,

I hear you, I bet the Lola is a completely different animal to drive, and fun!

In general my overview is as a first time driver there so I’m way down on the scale of “how to do it”. I do brake somewhat carefully, but in a Z car you treat the throttle as an on/off switch, as much on as you can stand. We don’t have the sort of power that you guys in Group 5/7 have, nowhere near as much, so wheel spin is “generally” not an issue. Sometimes it can be, but didn’t seem to be there.

Into one I’m trying to touch the brake and carry a lot of speed over to the apex. Most times I killed too much speed and had to add it back. One time I think I got it about right, braked enough to set the car, turned in and it stuck, tightened my butt cheeks, but it also carried a lot of speed. But all the other times with the traffic I was not doing that well there. I think I lost a lot of time in that area trying to get it right and I bet my Traqmate data will show different braking and deceleration every time.

I have a lot to learn there. I think the track will reward smooth inputs. Do you find this to be the case?

Turn five is somewhat challenging (I might have turn numbers off actually). With the race traffic there I don't think I ever learned much about how to do that right. Out of the carousel I think goes basically onto the straight with the right hander. I have always thought the “official” numbering of Roebling was overcomplicated. I think they tried to make it more than it is with the turns. I do like the place though.

I can’t imagine flying around there at a less than one minute lap, or at 1:10. Do GT40s run in your group, what do they clock in at? Your top speed has to be something serious if you get a good run out of whatever the right hander out of carousel and onto the straight is called.

I can’t even get up to a good race pace yet so I’m far behind. But, 2008 season opens soon and I hope to get a lot of time there. Isn’t HSR there on Nov 2? I’d like to see that but we have the VIR 13 hour then.

Ron

The straight begins at the Carosel apex for mid engine cars, generally speaking.
Even if breathing off around the last turn to keep the back end from coming out, the
terminal velocity at the end of the straight will be higher.
GT40s would do mid to high teens. Not a GT40 track...Not a Can Am track.
It is a track for small, light mid engine sports racers, or more importantly, it is a track for guys to learn to drive whatever they brung. I love the place.

Johan's point is highlighted by the comparatively fast times for Spec Miatas there. They run essentially the same times as ITS cars, which have on average probably 50-70 more rwhp.

Roebling is a momentum track. It rewards carrying speed into and through the corners.

The only thing I would add to the above is that the right side entry into turn 4 is now 100% correct. Before the repave though, 4 was off camber and if you washed out you could get into trouble. Now, there is grip all the way out to the curbing.

In an ITS car, or any IT car for that matter including SMs, you need to be flat out from the exit of the carousel to the braking zone in 1 to go fast. If not, well, you be suckin'.

Roebling doesn't necessarily suit my car (a live axle small V8 dinosaur) but I really enjoy driving the track. Fast, fun, and racy.

Here is a little track map of Roebling from the Roebling site. I have to say I still don't like the facilities and really don't like the track entrance and exit intersecting the track - meaning you can't get out or in until a session is over - but the track is a fun drive and I'm a fan. It looks small on the overhead view, but it is 2.02 miles around.

R

That part about not being able to escape when others are running also be suckin.' So to are the ants, the sand and the fuck bugs. The food is terrible, the weather usually crappy. Pooler is a pit. Don't go to the Stripper Pole, the Tasmanian Devil might come after you - but if he does, remember that he only goes to his right. Savannah is cool though and, most importantly, racing at Roebling is fast and fun.

Ron, post that map you made of Roebling. Pretty damn accurate.