Who's got an RCR40 in the UK?
- Thread starter kev_the_mole
- Start date
Ian, do you mean one that's been completed?
Tom has an RCR40 in Germany. See this link for his build log.
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-build-logs/24525-toms-rcr-40-trackracer.html
Sorry can't help with the UK ones.
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-build-logs/24525-toms-rcr-40-trackracer.html
Sorry can't help with the UK ones.
Dave Collins
Supporter
Kev,
My RCR is currently a bare chassis at Nick's as Stu noted above. You would be welcome to have a look once it is back together. I will be updating build thread with current progress once I get back to UK at the weekend.
Dave
My RCR is currently a bare chassis at Nick's as Stu noted above. You would be welcome to have a look once it is back together. I will be updating build thread with current progress once I get back to UK at the weekend.
Dave
Fran's shop is about 4 1/2 hrs from O'Hare. You need to fly into Detroit Metro.
Ian,
I'm also looking at an RCR and have found a few helpful individuals, here in Blighty, willing to let you plant your backside in the car.
I have done this and have a big problem getting my 5"11 94kgs of average shaped British bloke into the car. Considering I regularly get into a Caterham with a full cage without a problem, I'm tending to blame the car, not me. Just like Clarkson.
So I'll give you the heads up on my own situ.
I'm pretty certain all the cars currently in the UK without a full cage, have the older roll cage which is behind the rear bulkhead. Mr Lowe's recent delivery may be the exception however. The new cars coming out now no longer use this design as the ends of the shoulder straps of the harnesses pass through the engine bay, so in the event of an engine bay fire..... Personally, I'd like to think I'd notice..... So all new cars with a roll bar as opposed to a cage, inherit the rear section of the full cage.
Now the problem. Because the seat back is essentially a flat panel with side bolsters, reclining the seat (which incidently means you have to move the seat forward) means you cannot curve your spine into the back of your seat to get a comfortable neck, if you want to sit low. Your head is tilted very much downwards to compensate. If you have a chin (or several) like mine, this means your chin is on your chest, so its even hard to talk. This is not at all comfortable.
To exacerbate things more, your skull is also now just a very short distance from the horizontal bracing of the rear cage section, which in the event of a rear end shunt is a very significant hazzard. Of course if you use cage padding it will help, but without a helmet this is still possibly going to knock you unconcious.
And you need to sit low if you ahve the full cage.
The full cage, as you are most likely aware, has a tube which runs just inside the top of the windscreen and I found that for a proper driving position unless you can get even lower still in the seat (meaning recline the back) this bar intereferes with your vision in a bad way. If you have sever sat in a Cerbera, the effect is about twice as bad as that.
Effectively, as the bar across the top of the screen is not a particularly close profile to the top of the screen, you have to set your eye level around 2" lower in the car to compensate.
This, in my opinion is the biggest flaw of the RCR, and this is a key reason I have restrained myself from placing my deposit with Fran.
Fran of course has some photos of 6'8" people who own RCR's so I am making a mountain here clearly. These people must have long legs and short torsos or some clever form of vertibrae. Either that or they are like the contortionists I used to see at the circus as a boy.
So whats the solution?
Modify the cage? The RCR cage is not legal for competition in the UK. It does not comply with RAC MSA regs. The design lacks any diagonal bracing, which is essential for good cage performance, an issue however driven by the fact that the diagonal has to miss the crank nose.
Some creative design can resolve this and fabricating your own cage is one solution, but unless you have a tube bender and a skilled hand on the MIG, its a bit of a specialist job.
So getting a Safety Devices type company to make something is one option. Probably very expensive as a very low volume option however.
I think the cage can be improved. Removing the horizontal tube behind the drivers head is an essential safety mod in my opinion. Increasing the cages weight by adding more tubes into the rear bulkhead is a downside, but that the only way to overcome the intrusion of the crank nose into the rear bulkead.
A more accurately curved tube above the screen will also permit an extra inch or so of vertical field of vision.
Alternatively we could ask Fran to provide a lowered floor, but on the UK's roads that would be a disaster, and very prone to damage on its leading edge.
The best solution however will be to redesign the seat to incorporate a curved backrest. The current upholstery does not really allow this without looking a bit of a dogs breakfast around the bolsters, so it will mean getting the covers modified, or better still convincing Fran to add a curved seat to the options inventory.
All in all I was surprised by the problems I had fitting in the car. While the footwells in the RCR are enormous, its the seating angle which has to be got right if you are going to concentrate on driving rather than neck ache.
I hasn't put me off, but it will seemingly all add to the cost. Luckily the Dollar is moving the right way again today, so all is not lost!
I'm also looking at an RCR and have found a few helpful individuals, here in Blighty, willing to let you plant your backside in the car.
I have done this and have a big problem getting my 5"11 94kgs of average shaped British bloke into the car. Considering I regularly get into a Caterham with a full cage without a problem, I'm tending to blame the car, not me. Just like Clarkson.
So I'll give you the heads up on my own situ.
I'm pretty certain all the cars currently in the UK without a full cage, have the older roll cage which is behind the rear bulkhead. Mr Lowe's recent delivery may be the exception however. The new cars coming out now no longer use this design as the ends of the shoulder straps of the harnesses pass through the engine bay, so in the event of an engine bay fire..... Personally, I'd like to think I'd notice..... So all new cars with a roll bar as opposed to a cage, inherit the rear section of the full cage.
Now the problem. Because the seat back is essentially a flat panel with side bolsters, reclining the seat (which incidently means you have to move the seat forward) means you cannot curve your spine into the back of your seat to get a comfortable neck, if you want to sit low. Your head is tilted very much downwards to compensate. If you have a chin (or several) like mine, this means your chin is on your chest, so its even hard to talk. This is not at all comfortable.
To exacerbate things more, your skull is also now just a very short distance from the horizontal bracing of the rear cage section, which in the event of a rear end shunt is a very significant hazzard. Of course if you use cage padding it will help, but without a helmet this is still possibly going to knock you unconcious.
And you need to sit low if you ahve the full cage.
The full cage, as you are most likely aware, has a tube which runs just inside the top of the windscreen and I found that for a proper driving position unless you can get even lower still in the seat (meaning recline the back) this bar intereferes with your vision in a bad way. If you have sever sat in a Cerbera, the effect is about twice as bad as that.
Effectively, as the bar across the top of the screen is not a particularly close profile to the top of the screen, you have to set your eye level around 2" lower in the car to compensate.
This, in my opinion is the biggest flaw of the RCR, and this is a key reason I have restrained myself from placing my deposit with Fran.
Fran of course has some photos of 6'8" people who own RCR's so I am making a mountain here clearly. These people must have long legs and short torsos or some clever form of vertibrae. Either that or they are like the contortionists I used to see at the circus as a boy.
So whats the solution?
Modify the cage? The RCR cage is not legal for competition in the UK. It does not comply with RAC MSA regs. The design lacks any diagonal bracing, which is essential for good cage performance, an issue however driven by the fact that the diagonal has to miss the crank nose.
Some creative design can resolve this and fabricating your own cage is one solution, but unless you have a tube bender and a skilled hand on the MIG, its a bit of a specialist job.
So getting a Safety Devices type company to make something is one option. Probably very expensive as a very low volume option however.
I think the cage can be improved. Removing the horizontal tube behind the drivers head is an essential safety mod in my opinion. Increasing the cages weight by adding more tubes into the rear bulkhead is a downside, but that the only way to overcome the intrusion of the crank nose into the rear bulkead.
A more accurately curved tube above the screen will also permit an extra inch or so of vertical field of vision.
Alternatively we could ask Fran to provide a lowered floor, but on the UK's roads that would be a disaster, and very prone to damage on its leading edge.
The best solution however will be to redesign the seat to incorporate a curved backrest. The current upholstery does not really allow this without looking a bit of a dogs breakfast around the bolsters, so it will mean getting the covers modified, or better still convincing Fran to add a curved seat to the options inventory.
All in all I was surprised by the problems I had fitting in the car. While the footwells in the RCR are enormous, its the seating angle which has to be got right if you are going to concentrate on driving rather than neck ache.
I hasn't put me off, but it will seemingly all add to the cost. Luckily the Dollar is moving the right way again today, so all is not lost!
Arnie ..
nice informative post...I will attempt to answer your issues and questions....some of which you will no doubt not agree with but you are a newbie after all...and an open top car driver to boot.,
I have done this and have a big problem getting my 5"11 94kgs of average shaped British bloke into the car. Considering I regularly get into a Caterham with a full cage without a problem, I'm tending to blame the car, not me. Just like Clarkson....how can you there is no alarm system in an RCR40...
I'm pretty certain all the cars currently in the UK without a full cage, have the older roll cage which is behind the rear bulkhead....the standard car still comes with a 4 point roll bar and rear legs mounted behind the bulkhead.
Mr Lowe's recent delivery may be the exception however. The new cars coming out now no longer use this design as the ends of the shoulder straps of the harnesses pass through the engine bay, so in the event of an engine bay fire..... Personally, I'd like to think I'd notice....not if you were unconscious.
So all new cars with a roll bar as opposed to a cage, inherit the rear section of the full cage....incorrect, see above
Now the problem. Because the seat back is essentially a flat panel with side bolsters, reclining the seat (which incidently means you have to move the seat forward) means you cannot curve your spine into the back of your seat to get a comfortable neck, if you want to sit low. Your head is tilted very much downwards to compensate. If you have a chin (or several) like mine, this means your chin is on your chest, so its even hard to talk. This is not at all comfortable...but it is an inherent part of having a car with a roof and it only being 40 1/2 inches tall...dont forget your Caterham is not a Coupe
To exacerbate things more, your skull is also now just a very short distance from the horizontal bracing of the rear cage section, which in the event of a rear end shunt is a very significant hazzard. Of course if you use cage padding it will help, but without a helmet this is still possibly going to knock you unconcious....so would hitting the rear bulkhead with no cage at all....???
And you need to sit low if you ahve the full cage....you need to sit low period..its a GT40
The full cage, as you are most likely aware, has a tube which runs just inside the top of the windscreen and I found that for a proper driving position unless you can get even lower still in the seat (meaning recline the back) this bar intereferes with your vision in a bad way. If you have sever sat in a Cerbera, the effect is about twice as bad as that.....the cure for this is to spec your car with no inner roof panel and have the cage nest closer to the outer skin...which is an extra cost option should you feel the need......just ask....but you will sacrifice a finished inner roof panel...trade off???..
Effectively, as the bar across the top of the screen is not a particularly close profile to the top of the screen, you have to set your eye level around 2" lower in the car to compensate...bear in mind that original GT40's have no roll bar...at all
This, in my opinion is the biggest flaw of the RCR, and this is a key reason I have restrained myself from placing my deposit with Fran....with the dollar/pound rate being so favourable you could have a custom cage made and meet any and all your criteria...and still be on the upside.
Fran of course has some photos of 6'8" people who own RCR's so I am making a mountain here clearly. These people must have long legs and short torsos or some clever form of vertibrae. Either that or they are like the contortionists I used to see at the circus as a boy.....I would be careful what you say as some of the guys that are driving these cars are BIG guys and you may not want to call them Circus freaks to their faces...
So whats the solution?
Modify the cage? The RCR cage is not legal for competition in the UK. It does not comply with RAC MSA regs. The design lacks any diagonal bracing, which is essential for good cage performance, an issue however driven by the fact that the diagonal has to miss the crank nose...its not intended to be a race series legal cage...it is a safety measure for open track days only...But the material specs do meet the SCCA regs for a car under 2500lbs....We can build a fully legal cage but if you have concerns now then you would not have a chance in h#ll of getting into a fully legal FULLRACE cage GT40...check out Ron Earps T70 build thread for a full race cage here in the USA.
Some creative design can resolve this and fabricating your own cage is one solution, but unless you have a tube bender and a skilled hand on the MIG, its a bit of a specialist job....CORRECT...but no MIG allowed on an RCR ONLY TIG....
So getting a Safety Devices type company to make something is one option. Probably very expensive as a very low volume option however....CORRECT...but that is your trade off once again
I think the cage can be improved. Removing the horizontal tube behind the drivers head is an essential safety mod in my opinion. Increasing the cages weight by adding more tubes into the rear bulkhead is a downside, but that the only way to overcome the intrusion of the crank nose into the rear bulkead...there is no way to avoid the bump in the firewall unless you run a remote waterpump or a late model LSx Chevy engine
A more accurately curved tube above the screen will also permit an extra inch or so of vertical field of vision....so have Safety devices make one to your spec which you can oversee....as I mentioned we can certainly build you a full race cage but they are not cheap and the governing body specs the rules and dictate the tube location/placement not the owners personal preference.
Alternatively we could ask Fran to provide a lowered floor, but on the UK's roads that would be a disaster, and very prone to damage on its leading edge....there is no need...to be a GT40 driver you must accept some of the cars design issues and one of them is restricted space....as you kindly mention we do have cavernous space inside the footwells and we have MANY larger stature drivers sitting comfortably...but they accept the short comings of a small car.
The best solution however will be to redesign the seat to incorporate a curved backrest. The current upholstery does not really allow this without looking a bit of a dogs breakfast around the bolsters, so it will mean getting the covers modified, or better still convincing Fran to add a curved seat to the options inventory...we have a curved seat shell in Fiberglass and its the standard seat in our SL-C....a couple of Australian guys have tried it for size in a RCR40 and it worked for them..so problem solved...you just need to ask...ONCE MORE.
All in all I was surprised by the problems I had fitting in the car. While the footwells in the RCR are enormous, its the seating angle which has to be got right if you are going to concentrate on driving rather than neck ache....the seat angle is exactly the same as an original GT40...another design flaw in an original....
Arnie , the thing to remember also is that with an RCR the cage is a bolted in component that can be removed quite easily or built to be removed...to be more exact, and as such you can simply unbolt it when not required for road driving with no helmet and reinstated when helmet and track use is required...you are not married to it...
I hasn't put me off, but it will seemingly all add to the cost. Luckily the Dollar is moving the right way again today, so all is not lost!...so what are you waiting for....:dead:....
Have you sold the Cat yet????
Cheers
nice informative post...I will attempt to answer your issues and questions....some of which you will no doubt not agree with but you are a newbie after all...and an open top car driver to boot.,
I have done this and have a big problem getting my 5"11 94kgs of average shaped British bloke into the car. Considering I regularly get into a Caterham with a full cage without a problem, I'm tending to blame the car, not me. Just like Clarkson....how can you there is no alarm system in an RCR40...
I'm pretty certain all the cars currently in the UK without a full cage, have the older roll cage which is behind the rear bulkhead....the standard car still comes with a 4 point roll bar and rear legs mounted behind the bulkhead.
Mr Lowe's recent delivery may be the exception however. The new cars coming out now no longer use this design as the ends of the shoulder straps of the harnesses pass through the engine bay, so in the event of an engine bay fire..... Personally, I'd like to think I'd notice....not if you were unconscious.
So all new cars with a roll bar as opposed to a cage, inherit the rear section of the full cage....incorrect, see above
Now the problem. Because the seat back is essentially a flat panel with side bolsters, reclining the seat (which incidently means you have to move the seat forward) means you cannot curve your spine into the back of your seat to get a comfortable neck, if you want to sit low. Your head is tilted very much downwards to compensate. If you have a chin (or several) like mine, this means your chin is on your chest, so its even hard to talk. This is not at all comfortable...but it is an inherent part of having a car with a roof and it only being 40 1/2 inches tall...dont forget your Caterham is not a Coupe
To exacerbate things more, your skull is also now just a very short distance from the horizontal bracing of the rear cage section, which in the event of a rear end shunt is a very significant hazzard. Of course if you use cage padding it will help, but without a helmet this is still possibly going to knock you unconcious....so would hitting the rear bulkhead with no cage at all....???
And you need to sit low if you ahve the full cage....you need to sit low period..its a GT40
The full cage, as you are most likely aware, has a tube which runs just inside the top of the windscreen and I found that for a proper driving position unless you can get even lower still in the seat (meaning recline the back) this bar intereferes with your vision in a bad way. If you have sever sat in a Cerbera, the effect is about twice as bad as that.....the cure for this is to spec your car with no inner roof panel and have the cage nest closer to the outer skin...which is an extra cost option should you feel the need......just ask....but you will sacrifice a finished inner roof panel...trade off???..
Effectively, as the bar across the top of the screen is not a particularly close profile to the top of the screen, you have to set your eye level around 2" lower in the car to compensate...bear in mind that original GT40's have no roll bar...at all
This, in my opinion is the biggest flaw of the RCR, and this is a key reason I have restrained myself from placing my deposit with Fran....with the dollar/pound rate being so favourable you could have a custom cage made and meet any and all your criteria...and still be on the upside.
Fran of course has some photos of 6'8" people who own RCR's so I am making a mountain here clearly. These people must have long legs and short torsos or some clever form of vertibrae. Either that or they are like the contortionists I used to see at the circus as a boy.....I would be careful what you say as some of the guys that are driving these cars are BIG guys and you may not want to call them Circus freaks to their faces...
So whats the solution?
Modify the cage? The RCR cage is not legal for competition in the UK. It does not comply with RAC MSA regs. The design lacks any diagonal bracing, which is essential for good cage performance, an issue however driven by the fact that the diagonal has to miss the crank nose...its not intended to be a race series legal cage...it is a safety measure for open track days only...But the material specs do meet the SCCA regs for a car under 2500lbs....We can build a fully legal cage but if you have concerns now then you would not have a chance in h#ll of getting into a fully legal FULLRACE cage GT40...check out Ron Earps T70 build thread for a full race cage here in the USA.
Some creative design can resolve this and fabricating your own cage is one solution, but unless you have a tube bender and a skilled hand on the MIG, its a bit of a specialist job....CORRECT...but no MIG allowed on an RCR ONLY TIG....
So getting a Safety Devices type company to make something is one option. Probably very expensive as a very low volume option however....CORRECT...but that is your trade off once again
I think the cage can be improved. Removing the horizontal tube behind the drivers head is an essential safety mod in my opinion. Increasing the cages weight by adding more tubes into the rear bulkhead is a downside, but that the only way to overcome the intrusion of the crank nose into the rear bulkead...there is no way to avoid the bump in the firewall unless you run a remote waterpump or a late model LSx Chevy engine
A more accurately curved tube above the screen will also permit an extra inch or so of vertical field of vision....so have Safety devices make one to your spec which you can oversee....as I mentioned we can certainly build you a full race cage but they are not cheap and the governing body specs the rules and dictate the tube location/placement not the owners personal preference.
Alternatively we could ask Fran to provide a lowered floor, but on the UK's roads that would be a disaster, and very prone to damage on its leading edge....there is no need...to be a GT40 driver you must accept some of the cars design issues and one of them is restricted space....as you kindly mention we do have cavernous space inside the footwells and we have MANY larger stature drivers sitting comfortably...but they accept the short comings of a small car.
The best solution however will be to redesign the seat to incorporate a curved backrest. The current upholstery does not really allow this without looking a bit of a dogs breakfast around the bolsters, so it will mean getting the covers modified, or better still convincing Fran to add a curved seat to the options inventory...we have a curved seat shell in Fiberglass and its the standard seat in our SL-C....a couple of Australian guys have tried it for size in a RCR40 and it worked for them..so problem solved...you just need to ask...ONCE MORE.
All in all I was surprised by the problems I had fitting in the car. While the footwells in the RCR are enormous, its the seating angle which has to be got right if you are going to concentrate on driving rather than neck ache....the seat angle is exactly the same as an original GT40...another design flaw in an original...
.Arnie , the thing to remember also is that with an RCR the cage is a bolted in component that can be removed quite easily or built to be removed...to be more exact, and as such you can simply unbolt it when not required for road driving with no helmet and reinstated when helmet and track use is required...you are not married to it...
I hasn't put me off, but it will seemingly all add to the cost. Luckily the Dollar is moving the right way again today, so all is not lost!...so what are you waiting for....:dead:....
Have you sold the Cat yet????
Cheers
Last edited:
Fran,
I like your note about taking the cage out as needed. I guess we need to talk.
Great idea.
Howard
I like your note about taking the cage out as needed. I guess we need to talk.
Great idea.
Howard
Just to point my opinion
I´m 6´2" and own a RCR with full roll cage. As my seets are not fixed yet i´m able to move them in every position i want to and also vary the inclination as desired.
The only thing i can say is, that i found i position which allows a nice fit into the car without having the bespoke chin problem at all.
I had a party last weekend for which i converted the car into a race simulator ( just mounted a game steering wheel and pedals and projected a 36 x 24 feet picture in front of the car with a beamer and running GT LEGENDS as a game). A lot of different size people have had a seat in the car and although , all of them mentioned, that it is much more difficult to get in and out compared to a standard sportscar like a p----e ( how surprising), no one mentioned any other seating issues( even if some of them sat in there for more than an hour).
The only thing to mention, but easy and low cost to adapt is the tight seat fit in the shoulder area.
Regarding the roll cage. I like the design like it is, because it enables me to have a decent and easy solution for mounting the shoulder straps on the rear brace bar ( willans are offering some which are just to be looped around the bar and side to side movement will be fixed by a welded on wire brace).
Regarding the neck support. I haven´t been sitting in any GT40 of which original or close to original seat design ever, which realy supported the back of my head. Usually the backrest of this seats are just to low to do so for a standard sized euopean. So my solution would anyway be, to have a specific bolster made to my specific size needed and mount this on the horizontal rear bar of the cage ( for which this is ideal).
To enable different size drivers to fit into the car i plan to do a adjustable pedal set ( utilizing some adjustable seat track slides with an cable operated locking mechanism besides the driver seat and a small gas lift dampner in the back to bring it automatically towards the driver, as soon it is unlocked; then just step on the pedals until you feel comfortable and release the locking, fixed). As the RCR is also equipped with a quick change steering wheel , the plan is to have two different spaced steering wheels and just us the one fitting best.
I´ve been sitting in 5 different GT40 makes so far ( MDA, CAV, CCV; SPF; RCR) . Non of them are much different in terms of space from the seat cusion to the Roof top, but one is significantly different in terms of leg space, it´s the RCR.
TOM
IAN: i´m located a 4h drive southeast of Frankfurt, 40km east of Munich
I´m 6´2" and own a RCR with full roll cage. As my seets are not fixed yet i´m able to move them in every position i want to and also vary the inclination as desired.
The only thing i can say is, that i found i position which allows a nice fit into the car without having the bespoke chin problem at all.
I had a party last weekend for which i converted the car into a race simulator ( just mounted a game steering wheel and pedals and projected a 36 x 24 feet picture in front of the car with a beamer and running GT LEGENDS as a game). A lot of different size people have had a seat in the car and although , all of them mentioned, that it is much more difficult to get in and out compared to a standard sportscar like a p----e ( how surprising), no one mentioned any other seating issues( even if some of them sat in there for more than an hour).
The only thing to mention, but easy and low cost to adapt is the tight seat fit in the shoulder area.
Regarding the roll cage. I like the design like it is, because it enables me to have a decent and easy solution for mounting the shoulder straps on the rear brace bar ( willans are offering some which are just to be looped around the bar and side to side movement will be fixed by a welded on wire brace).
Regarding the neck support. I haven´t been sitting in any GT40 of which original or close to original seat design ever, which realy supported the back of my head. Usually the backrest of this seats are just to low to do so for a standard sized euopean. So my solution would anyway be, to have a specific bolster made to my specific size needed and mount this on the horizontal rear bar of the cage ( for which this is ideal).
To enable different size drivers to fit into the car i plan to do a adjustable pedal set ( utilizing some adjustable seat track slides with an cable operated locking mechanism besides the driver seat and a small gas lift dampner in the back to bring it automatically towards the driver, as soon it is unlocked; then just step on the pedals until you feel comfortable and release the locking, fixed). As the RCR is also equipped with a quick change steering wheel , the plan is to have two different spaced steering wheels and just us the one fitting best.
I´ve been sitting in 5 different GT40 makes so far ( MDA, CAV, CCV; SPF; RCR) . Non of them are much different in terms of space from the seat cusion to the Roof top, but one is significantly different in terms of leg space, it´s the RCR.
TOM
IAN: i´m located a 4h drive southeast of Frankfurt, 40km east of Munich
Arnie ..
nice informative post...I will attempt to answer your issues and questions....some of which you will no doubt not agree with but you are a newbie after all...and an open top car driver to boot.,
I have done this and have a big problem getting my 5"11 94kgs of average shaped British bloke into the car. Considering I regularly get into a Caterham with a full cage without a problem, I'm tending to blame the car, not me. Just like Clarkson....how can you there is no alarm system in an RCR40... You need to look at when he tried to fit in an original car.... Shut his head in the door.
I'm pretty certain all the cars currently in the UK without a full cage, have the older roll cage which is behind the rear bulkhead....the standard car still comes with a 4 point roll bar and rear legs mounted behind the bulkhead. I'm sure I was told otherwise, perhaps not by your good self though.....
Mr Lowe's recent delivery may be the exception however. The new cars coming out now no longer use this design as the ends of the shoulder straps of the harnesses pass through the engine bay, so in the event of an engine bay fire..... Personally, I'd like to think I'd notice....not if you were unconscious. It'd need to be an small explosion, not a fire!
So all new cars with a roll bar as opposed to a cage, inherit the rear section of the full cage....incorrect, see above Noted (must listen to Fran in future)
Now the problem. Because the seat back is essentially a flat panel with side bolsters, reclining the seat (which incidently means you have to move the seat forward) means you cannot curve your spine into the back of your seat to get a comfortable neck, if you want to sit low. Your head is tilted very much downwards to compensate. If you have a chin (or several) like mine, this means your chin is on your chest, so its even hard to talk. This is not at all comfortable...but it is an inherent part of having a car with a roof and it only being 40 1/2 inches tall...dont forget your Caterham is not a Coupe. It does have a full cage though - so its nearly a coupe -and the top of that cage is very close to the height of a GT40. See:
[pic]http://www.the-webbs.com/k2rum/images/DSC_7505.JPG[/pic]
Think about this. The Seven's rear bulkhead is at a similar angle to the RCR40, but they overcome the comfort issue for taller drivers who's helmeted heads have to be 1.5" below the top of the cage (RACMSA Nat B Sprint & hillclimb regs).
Caterham get the seats made with a curved back which leaves the upper half of your torso in a more vertical position, alleviating the chin/chest interference. So what I am suggesting is that you offer a GT40 lookalike seat with a subtley curved backrest. Just really means the bolster foam/fabric pattern needs ammending slightly. The back of the seat can be run through a metal brake to get the curve on it. Perhaps we are all different, so rephrasing the question, is the seat upholstery available cut but not fully sewn?
To exacerbate things more, your skull is also now just a very short distance from the horizontal bracing of the rear cage section, which in the event of a rear end shunt is a very significant hazzard. Of course if you use cage padding it will help, but without a helmet this is still possibly going to knock you unconcious....so would hitting the rear bulkhead with no cage at all....??? er no, given the clhoice between a very stiff tube and a sheet of ally panelling, I know what i'd opt for!
And you need to sit low if you ahve the full cage....you need to sit low period..its a GT40 OK, "And you need to sit even lower if you have the full cage"
The full cage, as you are most likely aware, has a tube which runs just inside the top of the windscreen and I found that for a proper driving position unless you can get even lower still in the seat (meaning recline the back) this bar intereferes with your vision in a bad way. If you have sever sat in a Cerbera, the effect is about twice as bad as that.....the cure for this is to spec your car with no inner roof panel and have the cage nest closer to the outer skin...which is an extra cost option should you feel the need......just ask....but you will sacrifice a finished inner roof panel...trade off???.. I think I already sacrificed the finished inner roof panel. I've never seen one unles you are suggesting the sacrifice is having a single skin spider?
Effectively, as the bar across the top of the screen is not a particularly close profile to the top of the screen, you have to set your eye level around 2" lower in the car to compensate...bear in mind that original GT40's have no roll bar...at all I just don't want to die, and I already have history testing the need for roll cages on circuits.....
This, in my opinion is the biggest flaw of the RCR, and this is a key reason I have restrained myself from placing my deposit with Fran....with the dollar/pound rate being so favourable you could have a custom cage made and meet any and all your criteria...and still be on the upside. Just waiting on a bit more consolidation in at the sub prime end of the financial services market..... $2.25 can't be far away...
Fran of course has some photos of 6'8" people who own RCR's so I am making a mountain here clearly. These people must have long legs and short torsos or some clever form of vertibrae. Either that or they are like the contortionists I used to see at the circus as a boy.....I would be careful what you say as some of the guys that are driving these cars are BIG guys and you may not want to call them Circus freaks to their faces...
So whats the solution?
Modify the cage? The RCR cage is not legal for competition in the UK. It does not comply with RAC MSA regs. The design lacks any diagonal bracing, which is essential for good cage performance, an issue however driven by the fact that the diagonal has to miss the crank nose...its not intended to be a race series legal cage... (Understood) it is a safety measure for open track days only...But the material specs do meet the SCCA regs for a car under 2500lbs....We can build a fully legal cage but if you have concerns now then you would not have a chance in h#ll of getting into a fully legal FULLRACE cage GT40...check out Ron Earps T70 build thread for a full race cage here in the USA. I think the regs over here for 'kit cars' are a bit more relaxed. They do want the diag bracing in the rear section though.
Some creative design can resolve this and fabricating your own cage is one solution, but unless you have a tube bender and a skilled hand on the MIG, its a bit of a specialist job....CORRECT...but no MIG allowed on an RCR ONLY TIG.... You can use seamless mild steel and be MSA compliant, so MIG's fine. TIG is obviously required if more exotic molys are used.
So getting a Safety Devices type company to make something is one option. Probably very expensive as a very low volume option however....CORRECT...but that is your trade off once again Read "So expensive, not a viable option"
I think the cage can be improved. Removing the horizontal tube behind the drivers head is an essential safety mod in my opinion. Increasing the cages weight by adding more tubes into the rear bulkhead is a downside, but that the only way to overcome the intrusion of the crank nose into the rear bulkead...there is no way to avoid the bump in the firewall unless you run a remote waterpump or a late model LSx Chevy engine. Neither are very authenic though, are they.
A more accurately curved tube above the screen will also permit an extra inch or so of vertical field of vision....so have Safety devices make one to your spec which you can oversee....as I mentioned we can certainly build you a full race cage but they are not cheap and the governing body specs the rules and dictate the tube location/placement not the owners personal preference. Lets take this subject offline. Can you email me some pics if you've already done one this way...
Alternatively we could ask Fran to provide a lowered floor, but on the UK's roads that would be a disaster, and very prone to damage on its leading edge....there is no need...to be a GT40 driver you must accept some of the cars design issues and one of them is restricted space....as you kindly mention we do have cavernous space inside the footwells and we have MANY larger stature drivers sitting comfortably...but they accept the short comings of a small car. I'm trying
The best solution however will be to redesign the seat to incorporate a curved backrest. The current upholstery does not really allow this without looking a bit of a dogs breakfast around the bolsters, so it will mean getting the covers modified, or better still convincing Fran to add a curved seat to the options inventory...we have a curved seat shell in Fiberglass and its the standard seat in our SL-C....a couple of Australian guys have tried it for size in a RCR40 and it worked for them..so problem solved...you just need to ask...ONCE MORE. I'm aware of this, but its an authenticity issue. A development of the GT style seat is the only way to go.
All in all I was surprised by the problems I had fitting in the car. While the footwells in the RCR are enormous, its the seating angle which has to be got right if you are going to concentrate on driving rather than neck ache....the seat angle is exactly the same as an original GT40...another design flaw in an original...
Arnie , the thing to remember also is that with an RCR the cage is a bolted in component that can be removed quite easily or built to be removed...to be more exact, and as such you can simply unbolt it when not required for road driving with no helmet and reinstated when helmet and track use is required...you are not married to it...
I hasn't put me off, but it will seemingly all add to the cost. Luckily the Dollar is moving the right way again today, so all is not lost!...so what are you waiting for....:dead:....
Have you sold the Cat yet???? Several interested parties, but gearbox not back from Quaife yet. I'll be in touch re: money/order in the not too distant future.
Cheers
Cant post unless I add 5 chars here....
Arnie...
its tough to have your cake and eat it too you know.....:
Give me a call....
cheers
its tough to have your cake and eat it too you know.....
:Give me a call....
cheers
Thanks for the concern guys but I'm a 5' 7" short @rse weighing a less than sylph-like 160lbs. I can get into any GT40 made.
Fran : will call but last few days too hectic
Tom : I should be in Herbrechtingen sometime soon which is much closer than Frankfurt unless I have to go back to Taiwan again
. I can get into any GT40 made.Fran : will call but last few days too hectic
Tom : I should be in Herbrechtingen sometime soon which is much closer than Frankfurt unless I have to go back to Taiwan again
The head rest was the only problem I saw when I sat in Fran's, and like you, I plan to make one (two, actually, one for the road, one with some lateral protection for the track. OK, actually 4, two of each).
As far as enabling other drivers to fit in the car, that's easy. Anyone should fit in the passenger seat, and no one else is invited in the other one!
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