Does everyone use the bladder fuel tanks?

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Chip Smith

• Jul 18, 2008

• #1

Is it a neccessity or just a safety issue for track use. As much as I would like the full bladder type I am welding up my own pod tanks and now wondering if I am the only one who will have home made tanks. I did get the ATL foam for the inside.

thanks, Chip

 

Ian Anderson

Lifetime Supporter

• Jul 19, 2008

• #2

I have 2 ali tanks on the Gt40

They are full of ALi type of swarf (like brillo pads)

Presumably this was to stop surging - but this does not work - as under braking the pump will suck air. I believe witht he foam the surging is greatly reduced.

So I can confirm not all cars have fuel cells!

Ian

 

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JohnMcL

• Jul 19, 2008

• #3

Brillo pad stuff likely to be Explosafe. Often wondered about its use in car fuel tanks as although inhibits explosions presumably does not stop a fire.
John McL

 

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Chip Smith

• Jul 19, 2008

• #4

Thanks for the reply. I will finish the tanks I have started but when I am up and runnig I can always upgrade. One reason I wanted to do my own is to build in a 3rd small sump tank between the two pod tanks so they are tied together and run the return to the sump. We'll see if it works shortly.

 

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Jim Cowden

• Jul 19, 2008

• #5

Chip
I made my tanks.
I put trap doors in (2 in either side, 1 at the rear 1 at the halfway point) so under brakes they shut and hold the fuel up in the rear off the tanks.
The tanks pump to a second tank (10lt at the rear of the R/H tank) this is then pumped to the engine.
If your main tanks do surge it does not matter as you are drawing from the 10lt tank.
You can shorten one tank to accommodate the surge tank.
Sounds similar to what you are thinking about.

Jim

 

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David Morton

Lifetime Supporter

• Jul 20, 2008

• #6

IMHO Explosafe is useless. All it does is reduces the amount of fuel in the tank and as far as it's qualities are concerned it will stop nothing - surging or explosions as a result fire.

 

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Mike

• Aug 7, 2008

• #7

Why isn't anyone talking about the cloth bladder? This is what makes a true fuel cell much safer, not the foam. The bladders from Fuel Safe or ATL are the key to the fuel not going everywhere during a crash. You can have them made to whatever your custom tanks are, but they will be substantially more expensive than off the shelf models, and probably more than most replicar people want to spend. Some sanctioning bodies may require their use. Particularly in the type of cars these GT40s are.

The fillers and vent valves also work much better at preventing fuel spillage in a crash.

 

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Chip Smith

• Aug 7, 2008

• #8

I guess it comes down to cost. Thats why I asked about the bladder fuel cells versus if there were any guys running home built aluminum tanks. I wanted to have the tanks equalized with a cross over with a surge tank in the middle and I did not find any bladder type cells that have a cross over opening at the lowest point and ATL and fuel safe told me they did not recomend it. So for about $100 and an afternoon of time I have these with a stainless 1 1/2" cross over and surge tank and foam filled to stop the sloshing. The wieght of the tank will rest on the bottom supported and padded with the tabs just for locating bolts, not to hang from.

 

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Ian K

• Aug 7, 2008

• #9

Chip,

Did you ask why ATL and Fuel Safe did not recommend it? There might be a very
good reason other than wanting your money.

Ian

 

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Ian K

• Aug 7, 2008

• #10

David Morton said:

IMHO Explosafe is useless. All it does is reduces the amount of fuel in the tank and as far as it's qualities are concerned it will stop nothing - surging or explosions as a result fire.

Click to expand...

Well, that and it often gets sucked up into the fuel system, clogging filters and such.

Ian

 

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Mike

• Aug 7, 2008

• #11

I would bet that the reason they don't recommend it is that they don't have a solution to a crossover block off valve for use in catostrophic incident.

The lift tank is the easiest and most commonly used method I have heard of, but it doesn't allow for equalization like the crossover. Simply put, you will get every last drop out of each tank(at least as much as a single tank), but filling will need to be done to both tanks.

 

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Chip Smith

• Aug 7, 2008

• #12

The tech guy at ATL that I spoke too just frowned on the idea of all the fuel being above the exit point in the bladder. I still wanted to fill from the top like normal an I thought there must be some way of haveing a liquid tight seal bulkhead from the bottom. Maybe it was just his personal opinion and if absolutely requested maybe it can be done, but then like crash33 said it comes down to the crossover failure in a catastrophic crash.

 

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Jim Holden

• Aug 11, 2008

• #13

In my ERA, we have a switch set up so that the fuel drawn from one tank will return to that tank. The fuel tanks in an ERA are full racing spec. fuel cells.

Frankly, I wouldn't want to be in anything that has side fuel tanks that are only a fraction of an inch away from some "event".

Jim

 

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Chris Martino

• Aug 11, 2008

• #14

From the Explosafe website:

References - to name a few...

United States
Department of the Air Force
Department of Defense
United States Navy
ExxonMobil
Uniroyal
Hughes Associates, Inc.


Canada
Transport Canada
Ontario Research Foundation


Italy
Hughes Associates Europe, srl


United Kingdom
Expamet


Past and Present Applications

United States Armed Forces
Cadillac Gage PeaceKeeper armored vehicles
Hercules C-130-Lockheed-Martin, tanks
AH-IT attack helicopter, external tanks
Seafox 36-foot special warfare craft
P250 gas-powered water pump


Canadian Army/Coast Guard/Department of Fisheries
Bombardier two-ton military trucks
BBE 31-foot bridge erection boats
Icebreaker gasoline storage tanks
36-foot patrol boats


Italian Navy/Army
240-liter drums for on-board gasoline storage
Dardo VCC-80 infantry fighting vehicle


I have this product in my fuel tanks and I hope to never find out if it works!


Chris

 

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JohnMcL

• Aug 17, 2008

• #15

Unlike Explosafe's references, I don't suppose there are many 40s exposed to the risk of having their fuel tanks shot up. However, it is probably important that an "event" does not permit fuel to leak onto hot metal. I go with modern race car practice on this, i.e. fuel cells. What is the general opinion?
J. McL.

 

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Malcolm

Supporter

• Aug 18, 2008

• #16

I would suspect that most replicas use ali tanks and not fuel cells predominantly for the reason that the kit designers wanted to keep cost down and so designed their cars that way. Certainly that is what I would expect from a UK perspective. With GTD's if any have a fuel cell, that would have been down to the builder not the factory. Not aware of KVA, Tornado, MDA, Dax or Southern GT doing anything differently either.

On RCRs with their ali mono design, am I right in thinking the tanks are effectively part of the chassis? Or do they insert a bladder into the sills to form the fuel tanks?

If you want to save weight then a fuel cell has to be lighter which for competition cars is always desirable!

 

Fran Hall RCR

GT40s Sponsor

• Aug 18, 2008

• #17

Malcolm,
we have both systems available.
I have FIA bladders in stock...see link. http://www.gt40s.com/forum/rcr-forum-rcr40-rcr70-p4-mkiv/24633-fuel-bladders.html