SLC questions

Considering this or an FFR GTM. Each has their pros and cons from my perspective when comparing one to the other.

In any case, I'm looking for info on three basic things:
1. Distance from the edge of the bellhousing from a G-50 transaxle to the bulkhead.
2. The total area of the front radiator opening
3. The largest radiator that can be stuffed in there.

Thanks in advance.

RX-Heven said:

Considering this or an FFR GTM. Each has their pros and cons from my perspective when comparing one to the other.

In any case, I'm looking for info on three basic things:
1. Distance from the edge of the bellhousing from a G-50 transaxle to the bulkhead.
2. The total area of the front radiator opening
3. The largest radiator that can be stuffed in there.

Thanks in advance.

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Are you planning a rotary engine? :thumbsup:

Call me tomorrow...I will be happy to answer all your questions..

I would love to see a big HP Rotary in one...an easy fit too IMHO

Quit stealing my 4 rotor idea ya big jerks!!! :furious:


JK. I'd love to see an SL-C powered by a big HP rotary as well. I know I'm going to do it once I order one, but if someone wants to do it first, by all means go ahead! You can work out the kinks for me. :thumbsup:

I was talking to my tuner friend yesterday about it and he was pretty pumped, but suggested a Whipple supercharger instead of a turbocharger or 2 for track use as the boost and power curve were going to be very predictable. A turbo will be on or off like a light and there's always lag. The Whipple will have the advantage of a belt driven supercharger and always be there. I don't know yet, still on the fence about how to configure the engine. I guess once I get the cash to buy the car & engine, I'll have to make the decission.

Sorry to jack your thread, please fill us in on your engine choice, we're dying to know!! Judging by your name, we're all guessing rotary though. Hehe.

Laters,

Brian

Settle down Brian... He never said he was going to use a rotary - although his handle "RX-Heaven" seems to indicate that to be a possibility!

I dunno Randy- maybe Brian needs a bit of motivation to be first kid on the block with a 4 rotor SL-C .
Actually IIRC there was someone out here in NZ that was looking into coupling a pair of triple rotors and taking the drive out of the center ala porsche 12 cyl, giving an effective 18 cyls- Might need to be a SLL-C to fit .

jac mac said:

I dunno Randy- maybe Brian needs a bit of motivation to be first kid on the block with a 4 rotor SL-C .
Actually IIRC there was someone out here in NZ that was looking into coupling a pair of triple rotors and taking the drive out of the center ala porsche 12 cyl, giving an effective 18 cyls- Might need to be a SLL-C to fit .

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Now Jac - we don't want to get the lad all worked up now...

Sounds like a SCREAMER!!!!

So Brian - when are all these Mega-Bucks and your SLC order going to meet?

Oops! Seems I've gone and hijacked a thread!!! :lipsrsealed:

Soon I hope. Still working on everything. I thought these big deals were supposed to be easy!! LOL

Back to the topic, where did this guy go? I hope we haven't scared him off by jacking his thread. I'm interrested in what his plans are.

Laters,

Brian

Conquest351 said:

I hope we haven't scared him off by jacking his thread.

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Not quite

Fran, I will call you Monday or Tuesday as I'm on the the west coast.
I'm really only looking for straight up dimensions at this point though.

I already have a dry-sumped 20b 3-rotor with ceramic seals and other goodies sitting on my shop floor (for too long I might add). I know this engine will fit in the SL-C (and GTM for that matter) since it is only 24-1/4" long and much narrower than the LS engines. However, to get the power from it that I am looking for, the 20b will need to be turbocharged. An n/a peripheral port 4-rotor (28-1/2") will achieve almost the same power as a turbo 20b but in a much simpler and more reliable package, particularly given the engine location in these cars.

Btw, the length dimensions are based on a 5-rib stock single belt, non-accessorized pulley. Stock type dual belt pulleys increase the respective lengths 1". Of course one could always use v-belts too....

Conquest351 said:

I was talking to my tuner friend yesterday about it and he was pretty pumped, but suggested a Whipple supercharger instead of a turbocharger or 2 for track use as the boost and power curve were going to be very predictable. A turbo will be on or off like a light and there's always lag. The Whipple will have the advantage of a belt driven supercharger and always be there. I don't know yet, still on the fence about how to configure the engine. I guess once I get the cash to buy the car & engine, I'll have to make the decission.

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Turbo > Supercharger
It's all in matching the turbo to the engine and your needs.

Fran,
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. :thumbsup:
Sounds like a 4-rotor will fit and should be able to stay cool. There is no better sound in the world except for F1 cars...maybe.

RX-Heven said:

Fran,
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. :thumbsup:
Sounds like a 4-rotor will fit and should be able to stay cool. There is no better sound in the world except for F1 cars...maybe.

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So you're going with a 4 rotor then? Very nice!! Are you going to build it or are you going to have someone like Pineapple Racing do it? The guy I talked to over there was extremely knowledgeable and helpful. Sounds like you're a rotary guy, so you may be able to do it yourself.

As for the Turbo vs. Supercharger thing. I agree wholeheartedly. Turbo's are far superior to superchargers in my honest opinion. I've always been a turbo fan and would always try to convince my customers at the performance shop I worked at to go that route rather than the superchargers. Another benefit on this type of engine is the throttle response. The 4 rotors rev so fast and then decrease RPM so quickly that they'd chunk a supercharger belt every time. Haha. Most of the stuff my tuner friend says I take with a grain of salt. But he sure can tune a car!

Can't wait to see your car setup!!

Laters,

Brian

dave, i recognize your name from my old rx7club.com days...good to see you're still playing with rotarys. i'd LOVE to see a 787b paint schemed, 20b turbo powered, SLC!!

Conquest351 said:

So you're going with a 4 rotor then? Very nice!!

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I haven't decided anything yet and not whether I build a GTM or SL-C. Talking to Fran the other day didn't do anything to help narrow my choice either...I was hoping to hear that it would not be possible to put a 4-rotor in the car
I haven't even decided on which rotary; a 20b or a 4-rotor. I have a full-tilt 20b already though I really want to do a 4-rotor but that engine alone is probably in the realm of 20k to be built the way I want. GTM can easily accept a turbo a 20b but a 4-rotor would require some modifications to the center tunnel area to accomodate the extra length. It sounds like a 4-rotor is more or less plug-n-play with the SL-C.

Conquest351 said:

Are you going to build it or are you going to have someone like Pineapple Racing do it? The guy I talked to over there was extremely knowledgeable and helpful. Sounds like you're a rotary guy, so you may be able to do it yourself.

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If you are referring to Rob Golden of Pineapple Racing, he has built several engines for me over the years, including the 20b I currently have. Rob is very knowledgable and a great guy and once he gets started talking, you can't get him to stop.

If i decide on the 4-rotor, I would probably have another shop like CLR Motorsports or Racing Beat build it since they have a bunch of in-house capabilities that Pineapple lacks.

Conquest351 said:

The 4 rotors rev so fast and then decrease RPM so quickly that they'd chunk a supercharger belt every time.

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They probably do rev quicker with all else equal due to two extra rotors being sparked but you can slow that (and decel) down with a heavier flywheel.

no0one said:

dave, i recognize your name from my old rx7club.com days...good to see you're still playing with rotarys.

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Still on there and yes I am a full on rotard. Recently parted out my widebody vert and am without an RX for the first time in 16 years. My shop is now empty waiting for something new and non-production car.

no0one said:

i'd LOVE to see a 787b paint schemed, 20b turbo powered, SLC!!

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The thought never crossed my mind

Hi Dave, I had first looked into the GTM before deciding on an SL-C. Even visited one in build stage. There were many items and construction methods that (in my opinion) were questionably done by FFR. Go to the GTM forum and see some of the problems the builders encounter. Send me a PM if you want details. In the end I visited Fran's shop and sold myself on the SL-C. IT IS A FAR SUPERIOR piece of engineering and art.

Jack..

molleur said:

There were many items and construction methods that (in my opinion) were questionably done by FFR.

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I've seen one in person about 90% complete. MDowns (ffr forum name) let me take a look at his car. I've been around a lot of race cars and even more street carsand for the money, I was very impressed and MDowns had done an excellent job building his. That said, I did see several things that were not to my liking about the car that are inherent to it's design. Still hard to beat for the price though and I did see many things I DID like about the car from an engineering perspective. I'll pm you regarding your thoughts.

molleur said:

Go to the GTM forum and see some of the problems the builders encounter.

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MDowns told me about many of the problems encountered during his build so I am aware of them and have read extensively on the FFR forum about the car. I've been registered there for a while now and lurked around the forum even longer, same as here. Fact of the matter is that I would already have owned a GTM were it not for an egagement ring that I had later found I was ripped off for and the whole can of worms that presented, personally and financially. Problem has been resolved and the car thing is back on track.

molleur said:

IT (SL-C) IS A FAR SUPERIOR piece of engineering and art.

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I'll agree regarding many (or perhaps even most) aspects but not all of them, at least without seeing one in person. Asthetically I think the GTM is hard to beat but on the track, I don't think anything will touch the SL-C. My thoughts on each car go into a bit more detail than just those two comparisons though.

I still haven't seen an SL-C in person but am hoping in the near future that I can get down to Santa Clara to check out chassis #1 if the owner agrees.

RX-Heven said:

[snip]
...but on the track, I don't think anything will touch the SL-C.
[snip]

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The proof is in the pudding.

Hey, it's a personal decision that usually has to do w/other things: money, time, work space, other projects, family commitments, etc.

Best wishes with your decision, and I'm pretty sure that we all hope you well with your project.:thumbsup:

I haven't even decided on which rotary; a 20b or a 4-rotor.

. . .
It sounds like a 4-rotor is more or less plug-n-play with the SL-C.

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Dave:

Just to add to your delicious dilemma, here is a little snippet from AREN:

(On 2/21/2009, Paul Lamar wrote: " . . . Contact Jim Mederer at Racing Beat and get him to give you a quote on a 4 rotor turbo. My guess is right around 1000 HP with 2/3rd the fuel burn of a turbo prop. Also better performance in the 20,000 to 30,000 foot range . . . "

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Of course, Mr. Lamar is speaking in an aeronautical context, where they need airliner reliabilty, not seven-seconds-and-it-explodes-in-your-face-drag-race reliability.

I really pity you, Dave, if you do get this Racing Beat four_rotor Wankel. Think of what a bad situation you will be in: 1,000 horsepower output for several minutes, easily the full length of VW's test track at Ehra-Lessien. The 1,001 hp Bugatti Veyron went 254 mph there. You would be in a lighter, more aerodynamic car. Who knows how fast you will go?

Then throttle back to 60% power and get 600 to 700 horsepower aaaaallllll daaaaaay loooong.

Without turbocompounding.

You poor boy.

Bassanio et Portia