My Fueling plans for the DynaTek Injection system

Allen English · Sep 6, 2009

I am preparing to purchase the required components to properly fuel our 302/306 Kieth Craft engine dyno rated @ 385HP.

I have been getting some input from Dean about his system and I am working on a similar set up for mine. So here is what I am looking into for my car. I am posting this in case I have made any mistakes they can be caught before I buy them, so please give me feed back if you would like. I am still shopping for the best possible prices I can get for this stuff.

Welcome to Motor Components, LLC - Dura-Lift

// WELDON RACING PUMPS // Home

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<v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" o

referrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"><v:stroke joinstyle="miter"><v:formulas><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:formulas></v:stroke></v:shapetype>1. Quantity (1) Facet #40223 Dura-Lift Fuel pump for the Swirl Pot $99<o></o>

Facet<sup>®</sup> Dura-Lift<sup>®</sup> Fuel Pumps<o

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Application: Refrigeration trucks, marine generator sets, diesel filtration systems, industrial applications, and other diesel lift applications. These pumps are rated for diesel fuel, gasoline, blended alcohol fuels, and fuel additives.<o

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Solid State Reliability: Proven on many original equipment applications No electrical contacts. No bearings or diaphragms to wear out or fatigue. Endurance life almost doubles that of our nearest competitor. <o

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Easy to Install-Easy to Service: Two bolt mounting makes installations easy. Nothing to adjust. The pump is self-priming to 120 inches (3.0 m). Vertical mounting is preferred to assure maintenance of rated pressures. The transparent housing allows for visual capability to monitor the cleanliness of the stainless steel filter. <o

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Eliminates Vapor Lock: When properly installed on most vehicles a constant, smooth, dependable supply of fuel under pressure is assured in the hottest weather or in high altitudes.

Available Features:<o

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·• Self-priming with a 10 ft. minimum lift
• Check valve
• 4 hour dry run
• Self-regulating
• 30 GPH
• 11.5 - 9 PSI
• VCA approved EC 95/54<o

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·• 80 Micron Stainless Steel Filter
• Transient Protection
• State-of-the-Art Electronic
• Sealed Electronics
• Reverse Polarity Protection
• Corrosion Resistant over 100 hours salt spray
• Durable Transparent fuel bowl
• Light Weight - 3LBs at 7 1/4”<o

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·• Low Power Requirements 1.4 amp on average<o

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·• Operating Temperature Range: -40F to 180F<o

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>2. Quantity (2) WELDON 600-A In-Line fuel pumps (-8 Inlet & -6 Outlet) for the tanks.<o></o>

Maximum HP:
600 hp Inj/700 hp Carb<o

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GPH/PSI Range:
55-80 GPH/0-95 PSI<o

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Consideration:
If your actual horsepower is close to the Max HP limit and/or you are considering a power adder, see part number A2005-A or D2015-A <o

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Features<o

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· Extremely quiet<o

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· Smooth, precise fuel delivery<o

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· Extremely low current draw<o

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· Self Priming
- Pump may be mounted above fuel cell
vertical or horizontal mount<o

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· All internal wear components are 100% metallic
No plactics or composite materials are used in the 600-A pump. This results in the longest lasting, highest quality most durable flow through pump available.<o

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· The housing is made from corrosion resistant 304 brushed stainless steel<o

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· Weldon anodized gold billet end caps with No-Leak seals<o

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· -8 inlet and -6 outlet leak free o-ring ports<o

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· 5.25 lbs<o

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· Two stainless steel T-bolt style clamps included with each pump<o

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· Long life, continuous duty<o

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Current Fluids
Compatible with Gasoline Only (not compatible with alcohol / ethanol based fuels)<o

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Comments
Requires appropriate bypass regulator, a -6 return line is recommended<o

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3. Quantity (1) 100 Micron Stainless Steel filter

-12 O-ring ports<o

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Over 60 sq in of filtering area<o

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Pressure rated for all Weldon Pumps<o

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Minimal pressure drop<o

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 4. One Regulator A2040-281-A-120 (up to 120 psi)<o

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Size of Return Orifice in Inches: .281"

Features:<o

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<table class="MsoNormalTable" style="width: 100%;" width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr style=""> <td style="padding: 0in; width: 50%;" width="50%" valign="top"> Fastest response rate
Provides stable fuel delivery for the most demanding requirements
All Weldon Regulators maintain steady fuel delivery during dramatic changes in fuel demand, such as WOT conditions, boost application and gear changes
Fully adjustable from 4-200 psi
.281" bypass orifice
Hardened steel ball and replaceable steel seat
Fluorosilicone diaphragm
Compatible with most racing fuels including ethanol, and methanol.
1/8" NPT Gauge Port
1/8" NPT manifold pressure reference port
Fuel pressure increases on a 1:1 ratio with boost
two -10 pressure ports
-8 return port
Replaceable / interchangable internal components
User serviceable
For use with all Weldon Pumps as well as pumps from other manufacturers
Mil-Spec clear anodized cover <o

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</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

IanAnderson · Sep 6, 2009

Hi Allen

My guess is that your first pump listed is WAY undersized

It is only able to run 30 Gph

on 385hp you will need (At max throttle)

15cc of fuel per hp per minute = 5475 cc/min (A number I got from this forum a few years ago)
so in an hour = 328500cc per hour = 328.5l per hour = approx 73 UK gal per hour

OK you cannot run at WOT / max power for an hour continuous but you never want to have a situation where you could lean everything for lack o fuel flow

You may get away with it if you have a Large Swirl pot that you will only empty agter xxx seconds of WOT (Difference between engine draw and feed)

Even a Facit Red top flows at 45gph

Ian

Allen English · Sep 6, 2009

Thanks Ian, I will look into that and correct the top post if i'm wrong after researching about it some more.

Looking at Dean's car he has a large one gallon swirl pot (Not sure were to get) located on the drivers side and the Dura-Lift pump he uses for that is mounted on the passenger side. I assumed this was the only Facet pump available like that, I may be wrong though. So rather than re-inventing what works well, I am trying to copy Dean's set up pretty close.

I have read many post on this subject, but most have been based on the carburetor set up's and usually no one post the part numbers they used. That would certainly take a lot of guessing out of the mix.

This is what Dean told me he has on his car:
1. Quantity of 2 Summit #SUM-G3137 Fuel pumps 450 lbs./hr. Max Pressure 65 psi.
2. Quantity of 1 Aeromotive #13109 A1000-6 Injected Bypass Regulator.
3. Quantity of 1 Facet Fuel pump Part # not sure.
4. Swirl Pot

Big-Foot · Sep 6, 2009

Allen - The Facet Duralift pumps are some of the best on the market.. A pair of them feeding the swirl-pot would be more than adequate for long pulls at full HP.

That is the route that I was going to go but have switched back to the more traditional SW-240 pumps to work with the Webers.

Allen English · Sep 6, 2009

Thanks Randy.

I am still trying to understand what is needed for my application exactly. I know Fran Hall will update me as he planned to discuss what I need with Dean. Hopefully Tuesday I will find out just exactly what I need to send RCR for my car.

Allen English · Sep 6, 2009

Well I can't edit and ad my findings to the first post, so I will ad my findings as I go.

A couple more items to get for the system:

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Motor-driven 6-port Electric Fuel Tank Selector Valve
For fuel-injected systems operating up to 65 psi. Designed to prevent returning fuel to incorrect tank. Weatherproof fiberglass-reinforced nylon valve body. Valve grounds to frame. Meets or exceeds DOT standards. Fits 3/8" I.D. fuel hose. Recommended fuse: 10 amps. Can be wired so original dash gauge indicates fuel level in either tank. Includes: switch, faceplate, wiring connector, instructions. Hoses not included—order separately. 6-port valve required on vehicles with 3 lines attached to fuel pump. For 12-volt systems.

Joules5 · Sep 6, 2009

Here is a list of what I am midst installing;

Low pressure side; 2 (existng one per tank) Carter P4600HP 100GPH, max 8 psi
Check valves are existing not sure on their part #
Swirl Pot; Kinsler Vapor Separator Tank (VST) #5712 12" long x 3" dia.
High Pressure side; Aeromotive 11101 600 lbs/hr, max 90 psi, -10AN inlet/outlet
Aeromotive 13101 Pressure regulator -10AN inlet/outlet & -6AN return, rated 30-70 psi
Aeromotive Check Valve # 15107 in HP line

I wanted to use AN fittings and braided hose throughout and hence I'm still not decided on solenoid valving for the return lines as the Pollack only has hose barb fittings. I'll probably source two metal body 3-way solenoid valves with npt fittings. The fuel rails will be plumbed in parallel.

I woud urge checking the pump curve on any potential fuel pump purchase as some manufacturers simply quote open flow and a max psi rating. Thus the pump might not flow the quoted amount at the desired operating pressure. The Aeromotive catalog provides pump curves and as an example the pump above flows 600 lbs/hr @ 60 psi.

I also suggest to download the Kinsler Catalog from their website, it is a useful resource having technical information and plumbing diagrams for EFI systems.

Allen English · Sep 6, 2009

Julian, Thanks

I will look over the performance specs for the Weldon pumps.

I don't particularly care for the Pollak 6 way valve either, but Dean has it on his car with way more horsepower than I am running and say's he has had no problems.

The DynaTek Injection system I have, has 3/8 fuel rails. So I think I am on track with the parts I am looking at for my system. Also speaking with Dean I found out the swirl pot in the RCR is built into the left side tank. I was looking at his oil sump tank thinking that was the swirl pot. :embarassed:

Big-Foot · Sep 6, 2009

Allen English said:
I don't particularly care for the Pollak 6 way valve either, but Dean has it on his car with way more horsepower than I am running and say's he has had no problems.

Another option would be to use a Ford E-150 Fuel Tank Selector Valve.

Selector valve assy, p/n F1UZ-9B263-B $ 77.99 from www.fordpartsnetwork.com

Allen English · Sep 6, 2009

Thanks Randy - I will check with my Ford Parts warehouse Tuesday and look at it as an option.

I am also going to look into a different fuel filter, rather than the WELDON unit. I think a canister style would look more correct in my opinion.

CESLAW · Sep 6, 2009

The Aeromotive check valves require a lot of pressure to overcome the spring loading. A standard carburated pump, say 8 to 10 pounds of pressure, will not overcome the spring. Perhaps the high pressure pump used in the EFI will work fine, but you may want to check to make sure.

I am using the Aeromotive check valves with a Holley pump, but made a slight mod to reduce the spring pressure as detailed on our build blog. They work very well with the modification.

May not be an issue in your applicaition, but mentioning it FWIW. They are nicely made units.

Allen English · Sep 6, 2009

Hello CESLAW,

I bought two of them tonight from a member here, and expect they will be fine as talking with Dean today he said they work fine for him. So the valves are my first purchase I am now committed to making work. :thumbsup:

Brian Kissel · Sep 6, 2009

I had looked into the Ford valve for my car also. I found a couple of articles about the valve, and am now looking for something different. One article deals with the fuel returning to the wrong tank, and there was actually a service bulliten out for it. The other, describes how it works.
Ford E

has this been a know problem - The National Lightning Owners Club Inc

Regards Brian

p thompson · Sep 7, 2009

IanAnderson said:
Hi Allen

My guess is that your first pump listed is WAY undersized

It is only able to run 30 Gph

on 385hp you will need (At max throttle)

15cc of fuel per hp per minute = 5475 cc/min (A number I got from this forum a few years ago)
so in an hour = 328500cc per hour = 328.5l per hour = approx 73 UK gal per hour

OK you cannot run at WOT / max power for an hour continuous but you never want to have a situation where you could lean everything for lack o fuel flow

You may get away with it if you have a Large Swirl pot that you will only empty agter xxx seconds of WOT (Difference between engine draw and feed)

Even a Facit Red top flows at 45gph

Ian

I think you need to check your calcs there Ian - I've run up to 500HP on a Bosch HP pump rated at 255L/Hour..

328L per hour would support up to about 750Hp I'd think...

Also - when Roy and I flow checked the RED Tops (pre injection days) - we found nothing like 45 gph - which is also why people commonly 'bridge the switch' on standard GTD setups for long open throttle runs where more than 380HP is expected (hoped for).

Hope that helps..

Allen English · Sep 8, 2009

SUMMERY

1. Quantity (1) Facet #40223 Dura-Lift Fuel pump for the Swirl Pot
2. Quantity (2) WELDON #600-A Fuel Pumps one for each fuel tank
3. Quantity (1) WELDON #A2040-281-A-120 Fuel pressure regulator
4. Quantity (2) Aeromotive #15106 Check Valve
5. Quantity (1) Mallory #3160 Canister Fuel Filter
6. Quantity (1) Pollak #42-300P 6 Way electric Valve
7. Quantity (1) Aeromotive #15633 0-100 psi Fuel pressure gauge

This is what I have ordered at this time. The plumbing will be done by the fine folks at Race Car Replicas. The fuel lines and fittings are a given so I wont go into that part. I may have to ad other items, but since I am not building my car and Race Car Replicas is I will update the appropriate stuff here when I have the information.

From the research I have found the Weldon Pumps are very quiet and perform very well too. Dean has the Summit pumps and has also said they work very well.

Allen English · Apr 10, 2010

OK - My car is home, but the fuel system has a return fuel problem seen in the first diagram linked below. Once I traced the system out I found it had a constant return to the right side tank. We needed a solution and I haven't been able to find one.

See here http://www.ffcobra.com/photopost/data/571/Allen_English_RCR_Fuel_Diag.jpg

This is what Don C from the Cascade Cobras Club and I have been working on for a new solution to re-route our RCR40 fuel system properly. The system has three tanks. One is a swirl pot that holds maybe a gallon or more of petrol. The system has three fuel pumps and the car is injected. We decided that either diagram here would work and I we decided the best fit for my situation would be Version 2 (see top diagram). This will use the Pollak valve as a return shuttle for the fuel and require less fuel line movement on my car.

I think we have a solution. Now I will try it and see how it works. I will post my findings once finished and tested. I won't get to it for a week or two so if someone see's any problems with either version I am all ears. Thanks

Big-Foot · Apr 10, 2010

I would use the circuitry shown in the second picture "Version 1" as it will direct the return back to the same tank that the car is currently running on. Now that will mean that you'll only be pulling from one tank at a time, that's no big deal..

Allen English · Apr 10, 2010

Hi Randy,

With the top diagram the fuel feed lines are not directed through the valve, because the pumps act as a valve by turning on either the left or the right side pumps. Is this not a viable option?

Big-Foot · Apr 10, 2010

Allen English said:
Hi Randy,

With the top diagram the fuel feed lines are not directed through the valve, because the pumps act as a valve by turning on either the left or the right side pumps. Is this not a viable option?

You would have to synchronize the fuel pump and director switch positions for the top diagram to work.

With the other diagram, you could conceptually run both the pumps all the time but one would be dead-headed while the other would be pushing fuel.

Is the Dura-lift pump pushing the fuel to the injector from the swirl pot? How many PSI are you running on the fuel rail?

Allen English · Apr 10, 2010

Fran installed two Dura-lift pumps, each fill the swirl pump depending on the side I turn on. The WELDON pulls from the swirl pot all of the time and feeds the injection.

We didn't run with my original plans using two WELDON pumps.

SUMMERY
1. Quantity (2) Facet #40223 Dura-Lift Fuel pumps for fuel tanks to Swirl Pot (switched)
2. Quantity (1) WELDON #600-A Fuel Pump pulling from swirl pot to injection.
3. Quantity (1) WELDON #A2040-281-A-120 Fuel pressure regulator set to 45 psi.
4. Quantity (1) Mallory #3160 Canister Fuel Filter
5. Quantity (1) Pollak #42-300P 6 Way electric Valve
6. Quantity (1) Aeromotive #15633 0-100 psi Fuel pressure gauge

My Fueling plans for the DynaTek Injection system

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