Cooling liquid
- Thread starter EGLITOM
- Start date
Tom
What you are running is really no different from any alloy headed vehicle built since early 70s.
Glycol alcohol (ethylene glycol)(anti freeze) is all you need and you need at least 20% to have any reasonable anti corrosive effect. Dose your system to exceed the low temperatures you are likely to be exposed to.
It does not matter if you run higher percentages and in fact diesel engines such as CAT and International have recomended 100% in cold climates.
Antifreeze is in fact better a better heat tranfer mechanism than water so high percentages are actually better.
If you plan to run it on a track, check if there is any restrictions on coolant.
Some of what you buy is pre-mixed so read the label carefully.
The only other thing worth considering is to buy antifreeze that has a wetting agent in it as this gives better heat transfer also.
In the 60s /70s the various antifreeze products were coloured green to repel animals. Now they are all colours but the important ingradient you are after is ethylene glycol.
Hope this is of help
Kevin B
What you are running is really no different from any alloy headed vehicle built since early 70s.
Glycol alcohol (ethylene glycol)(anti freeze) is all you need and you need at least 20% to have any reasonable anti corrosive effect. Dose your system to exceed the low temperatures you are likely to be exposed to.
It does not matter if you run higher percentages and in fact diesel engines such as CAT and International have recomended 100% in cold climates.
Antifreeze is in fact better a better heat tranfer mechanism than water so high percentages are actually better.
If you plan to run it on a track, check if there is any restrictions on coolant.
Some of what you buy is pre-mixed so read the label carefully.
The only other thing worth considering is to buy antifreeze that has a wetting agent in it as this gives better heat transfer also.
In the 60s /70s the various antifreeze products were coloured green to repel animals. Now they are all colours but the important ingradient you are after is ethylene glycol.
Hope this is of help
Kevin B
THats the reason i´m a little confused
Products : BASF Performance Chemicals
http://www.veredlungschemikalien.ba...l/glysantin/content/EV/EV3/glysantin/blending
silicat free or silicat containing ? Advantage / disatvantages ?
TOM
Products : BASF Performance Chemicals
http://www.veredlungschemikalien.ba...l/glysantin/content/EV/EV3/glysantin/blending
silicat free or silicat containing ? Advantage / disatvantages ?
TOM
I don't think this is true. Without hunting back through a mountain of stuff IIRC the main features of AF Coolant in a race motor is that it raises the boiling point but at the same time it reduces the cooling efficiency, and particularly is prone to allowing localised hot spots to form in the heads. Thus it is a balancing act and I believe somewhere between 30 -50% AF is optimum.
I looked into this when I was running my TR7V8, the cooling was marginal and I went to 100% AF thinking it would be better. Wrong! From memory I think I found about 40% gave the best results.
With the diesels I think head temps are considerably less and if operating in cold climates the lowered efficiency of 100% AF would be a non-issue.
I agree with the benefits of water wetter.
That's my experience and recollection, others may have some hard statistics to confirm or refute that
Cheers,
Russ
Edit. Tom reposted while I was typing and racking my brains. I can see why you are confused. I would just go with the old fashioned, low tech, well proven, ethylene glycol product as recommended by Kevin
Last edited:
I always thought "Water Wetter" was a joke, but it works ! Frank
De mineralised water and a wetting agent.
Anti freeze has no place on a race track but ok for the road. The wetting agent breaks down the surface tension on the water allowing it to "wet" the water galleries providing greater heat transfer.
Anti freeze has no place on a race track but ok for the road. The wetting agent breaks down the surface tension on the water allowing it to "wet" the water galleries providing greater heat transfer.
Any product name for the "water wetter " ?
what is about anti corrosion, i´m especialy concerned due to the copper lines i made up to my heater core (which i believe is copper too, Hot Rod Air standard ???). Copper is pretty high ranked in the row of electrolytic elements and aluminium is pretty low. There will be a point where all the ions have been exchanged and if one doesn´t change the cooling liquid no more transfer will happen. New cooling liquids are putting a protective layer on surfaces to minimize this corrosion ( at least that my understanding).
TOM
Tom - For the street I use a 50/50 mix of regular Ethylene-Glycol antifreeze. On the track I will use only between 10-20%.
I'll stop using it when there becomes available an anti-corrosive coolant that lubricates water pump bearings and works as well..
I'll stop using it when there becomes available an anti-corrosive coolant that lubricates water pump bearings and works as well..
Howard Jones
Supporter
Track only cars, 100% distilled water, water wetter added as directed by product information. (if you blow a hose at max revs down the front straight and pump out all of your nice slippery green stuff for a 100 yards down the track don't be suprized if they don't ask you back)
Street, 50% distilled water, 50% antifreeze. Please use the type that is safe for dogs. I love dogs.
Track and street cars, drain out the AF/water blend when you go to the track, save it in gal milk containers and put it back in when you bring the car home, drain the distilled/WW mix and save it for next time. Most cars will take about 4 gals of coolent. Save the next 8 milk jugs and you are all set.
Street, 50% distilled water, 50% antifreeze. Please use the type that is safe for dogs. I love dogs.
Track and street cars, drain out the AF/water blend when you go to the track, save it in gal milk containers and put it back in when you bring the car home, drain the distilled/WW mix and save it for next time. Most cars will take about 4 gals of coolent. Save the next 8 milk jugs and you are all set.
Julian
Lifetime Supporter
FWIW after a number of premature failures of aluminum radiaiors due to galvanic corrosion Fluidyne now recommend use of ' No Rosion'
Details can be found here; No-Rosion Products Home Page
Details can be found here; No-Rosion Products Home Page
Seymour Snerd
Lifetime Supporter
Actually that is the product name, believe it or not:
Red Line Synthetic Oil - Water Wetter® Coolant Additives
Less than 25% antifreeze will evaporate almost as quickly as will pure water in the heat of the day. Clean-up is simple.
Blow an oil line / filter / engine and you have a mess FAR worse than any bit of coolant...
On my competition cars, all hoses are in prime condition and if clamped (vs AN), they are double-clamped.
I've never used distilled water in any engine to be honest with you. Straight from the tap for me..
While I think you're not saying this, are you asserting that if you use distilled water, you will no longer have to be concerned with the lubrication of water pump and no corrosion issues?
Ron Earp
Admin
Same for me. Some of my racer buddies recoil in shock, but, they aren't sure why they recoil in shock - and there is the rub - lots of lore out there about things of this nature. If you have decent water that isn't coming from an aquifer under a salt mine you'll be just fine. The water in the Raleigh/Durham NC area is flat out fantastic.
I will be putting a bit of antifreeze in the Z this week. Going to VIR and the lows are expected to be in the mid-20s each night. I don't want to repeat the Lola experiment on the Z....5-10% should be plenty to protect against those temps.
.
Howard Jones
Supporter
The reason to use distilled water is that is is a contant. The suff from the super market is pretty cheap and it will always be the same clear clean water. Depending on where your tap water comes from it might have a lot of minerals in it. Why recomend using tap water for someone who wants to know what to use when I have no idea of the quality of their water supply. Thus distilled water.
If you are switching between a track mix and the usual 50/50 street mix as necessary you will never get it all out of the system and surely leave enough AF in the system to lube the waterpump.
As far as how fast AF/water mix evaporates, you may be correct, but the group(s) I run track days with ask nicely that everyone NOT use ANY AF on track for the simple reason that if they didn't someone will surely fill their car up with 100% AF and then blow it all over the track. Therefor I abide with the rules because I tend to do so when asked nicely and for good reason.
Ron your surely correct, there is a lot of wifes tales on a lot of stuff like, oil quality, air instead of nitrogen in tires, water or AF in coolent systems , and on and on. The cool thing is this forum gives everyone a chance to make their case on a subject and present what from time to time is some really good information.
At the end of the day, a forum member can usually count on soild, informed, usable information here. Thanks for that.
If you are switching between a track mix and the usual 50/50 street mix as necessary you will never get it all out of the system and surely leave enough AF in the system to lube the waterpump.
As far as how fast AF/water mix evaporates, you may be correct, but the group(s) I run track days with ask nicely that everyone NOT use ANY AF on track for the simple reason that if they didn't someone will surely fill their car up with 100% AF and then blow it all over the track. Therefor I abide with the rules because I tend to do so when asked nicely and for good reason.
Ron your surely correct, there is a lot of wifes tales on a lot of stuff like, oil quality, air instead of nitrogen in tires, water or AF in coolent systems , and on and on. The cool thing is this forum gives everyone a chance to make their case on a subject and present what from time to time is some really good information.
At the end of the day, a forum member can usually count on soild, informed, usable information here. Thanks for that.
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
Some of the modern long-life coolants (I have used the MB stuff and it is orange) are better for engines where there are different metals exposed to the same coolant stream. I think those are the silicate-free antifreezes. I use them in systems that don't leak; they are a lot more expensive, but they are better over the long run.
Glycol does not cool as well as water; water's cooling properties are better. A mix up to 50/50 is about as steep as anyone goes. 40% glycol would be better.
Redline Water Wetter is a surface-tension reducing agent, or wetting agent. Kind of like PhotoFlo, for those who still develop their own films. It does help cooling if the cooling system is healthy. It will not make a marginal or clogged cooling system work better; there has to be adequate flow and heat transfer capability throughout the system to get good cooling, especially on the track or in hot weather where the system's reserves are taxed to the maximum.
Glycol does not cool as well as water; water's cooling properties are better. A mix up to 50/50 is about as steep as anyone goes. 40% glycol would be better.
Redline Water Wetter is a surface-tension reducing agent, or wetting agent. Kind of like PhotoFlo, for those who still develop their own films. It does help cooling if the cooling system is healthy. It will not make a marginal or clogged cooling system work better; there has to be adequate flow and heat transfer capability throughout the system to get good cooling, especially on the track or in hot weather where the system's reserves are taxed to the maximum.
Ron Earp
Admin
Hi, my name is Ron and as a former water wetter kool aid drinker I used extensively. I was "gotta gotta gotta have it", mainly because other people told me so, not because I was thinking through my problems. I'd used it and it "seemed to help", so started using it religiously and, and, and the next thing I knew I was on the streets, a gun in my hand, and sticking up....wait, wait, wrong story. Anyhow....
Last year I got tired of paying $10 for a bottle every time I cracked open my cooling system. So I started looking at my cooling problems (on the Z) and found some shrouding, a real cooling fan, a real oil cooler, and good radiator took care of my cooling issues. Kicked the water wetter habit.
I'm not saying it is worthless, but if water wetter is all that is standing between you and an overheated car, well, you've got some issues to resolve.
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