Electric water pump

Hi Guys,
Has anyone ever used a Davis Craig water pump controller with an engine mounted electric water pump, such as those from Moroso?

I have cut the front off my water pump and using the DC unit in-line. I am still building the car, so can't say how it runs yet.

Also, it means I don't have to have a bump in the engine access panel.

That was the way I was going to go. However, I couldn't get the exact same water pump as the one that came with my engine, apparently the one fitted to my engine is quite obscure and was only fitted for one year so no one stocks it. This led to fitting a different aluminium pump, which I did, but the outlet now interferes with the front pulley.

So, I can now take off the lip of the front pulley on a lathe, and continue with plan A, or replace the ali pump with an engine mounted electric pump. However I do want to use the electric pump controller, so I would rather continue with plan A if the two are not compatible.

Jonny,
Can you post photos? If you are going to chop the front off etc just use the original. I am going to run the original cast pump, but have chopped the front off the front. This saves the weight. It's very tight for me, and I have to space the alternator adjustor out slightly.

If you want to see the finished article, I got Brian Magee to finish it for me. Here's a link to one he had for sale many moons ago.

http://www.gt40s.com/forum/garage-sale/12466-water-pump.html


You other option could be to make some bosses on the timing cover and then join the pipes together. A bit like this:

Not directly answering your question, but if my experience is of use....

I ran 2 of the original EWP80 units on my twin turbo 461 BBC racing Jag, without a controller, with the water pump removed completely and one pump supplying each bank, and with a gutted thermostat "washer" in the thermo housing, and it never broke into any kind of sweat. In fact the only time it got to what would normally be regarded as operating temp was if I had to stop without a cool-down lap after being up it for a while - such as the end of a targa stage. My oil was getting up to good temp so I was OK with coolant being on the cool side. I would have installed a controller if it had have done any significant time on the street.

Cheers, Andrew

Hi Guys,
Here are some photos of my problem:

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DSC01750 by http://www.flickr.com/people/53823098@N06/, on Flickr[/IMG]

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DSC01751 by http://www.flickr.com/people/53823098@N06/, on Flickr[/IMG]

So my choices are: a) take the lip of the pulley off on a lathe. b) replace the pulley. c) replace the pump.

My thinking was to replace the pump with an engine mounted electric pump, as I am going to have to buy a pump anyway. But my question is will an engine mounted electric pump be able to cope with the variable voltage put out by the controller as it controls the speed of the pump with temperature?

Jon,
The DC controller should work O K for any pump you want to use. Just remember the DC units use an on off setup as the temp climbs above the low setting(10 sec on 10 off). Then goes to a continuous after it reaches the high setting. So it is a surging type action. If that bothers you you can use a Spal unit. Theirs uses a slow to fast type action much like a rheostat and is actually a PWM type of setup. Both can be set up for a run on after shut down if you want. Eliminates the heat soak. The DC unit will run for 2 minutes or til the high temp setting is reached, which ever comes first. Can't remember from memory what the Spal timing is. If these times are not enough for you, you can use an off delay timer relay from Waytek that wiill, depending on which you order, run from a few seconds to hours. I have some rear clip ventilation fans that will use the 1-10 minute timer relay.

Bill

Jon,
I would just dump the cast pump and put the elec in its place, we used them on our Mini Se7en race cars for many seasons, without the controller mind, we just wired it into the ignition side, as mentioned above the ability to leave the pump running after you switch off to eliminate heat soak was a godsend. We took the pump off and machined a flat piece of alloy to match the pump flange then just welded an alloy elbow onto said plate and bolted it on as you would do a normal pump, that way you can direct any pipework away from any pulleys etc.

Thanks for the info guys.

Bill, that helps a lot. The on/off nature of the controller should pose no problems for the pump. It was the rheostat type voltage that I was concerned about. So I think the way to go will be to replace the existing pump (although not actually a pump, as its had its internals removed) with an electric one.

Next question, gallons per minute for a 347?

Jon,
There was a discussion(thread) on this very subject. Some seem to think you need a high volume pump. Others think that if you move the water too fast, it negates the ability to pick up the heat properly. Still others think a low volume pump will suffice. The number kicked around most was the 55 GPM pumps. There are some up to 110, and some as low as 19. I myself have a Moroso pump and it is around 19 if memory serves. Most manufacturers make the pumps(and output) specific to engine size.
Then there is the argument of whether to run a thermostat, a large washer, or a thermostat with a bleed hole drilled in it. Then whether to run a bypass thermostat even with a remote unit. Do a search for Electric water pump here and you will find 10 pages of post . Only some of them will be of value because the way the search engine works. You will find many arguments for types, sizes, and flow rates.
Most think mine is too small. It is the correct pump according to Moroso for the 351W. But in fairness, mine is bored and stroked. It should be on the road soon and we will find out if it is adequate. Those here on the forum have heard this from me at least 40 times. Things keep getting in the way, and I will leave it at that. I did have my engine running and without a thermostat and the temps never got above 160-180 while sitting on jack stands. Maybe driving it will make a difference. We will see.

Bill

wbmusarra said:

The number kicked around most was the 55 GPM pumps. There are some up to 110, and some as low as 19.

Click to expand...

Bill -- when you say 110 are you referring to the 110 liters/min of the Davis Craig unit? I ask because the highest capacity I've heard of is Meziere's 55 gallons/min. And BTW when I described my mild 500 hp FE application to a tech at Meziere he was concerned about whether it would keep up, at least for long periods at large throttle. Not too worried about that because I don't think I will keep up for long periods at large throttle.

Regarding the limitations of the local search function, recall that some nice person (I don't remember who) pointed out that you can use Google to search GT40s.com simply by entering your search terms and then following it with "site:GT40s.com". That works really well.

awatkins said:

And BTW when I described my mild 500 hp FE application to a tech at Meziere he was concerned about whether it would keep up, at least for long periods at large throttle. Not too worried about that because I don't think I will keep up for long periods at large throttle.

Click to expand...

I ,also discussed this with the Meziere tech guys before I built my car and I have been running their 55GPM ,remote mount pump for a few years ( and I have quite a bit of track time on it) and it keeps up GREAT!
The only regret that I have is using a cheap relay for the pump. That is the only problem I have encountered even with a nearly 700HP engine. I have since upgraded the relay to an expensive Bosch unit.

Alan,
Thanks for the heads up on the search function. I had not heard of it before. I tried it and it works great. Much better than the forums search.
The 115 unit is a Davies Craig EWP unit seen here. 115 Lpm actual=1822 GPM. Looks a lot like a turbocharger more than a pump. I dare say you could put a house fire out with this thing!!!!
Alloy EWP115 Electric Water Pump

Bill

Bill - I think that's actually 1,822 GPH - Still - very stout...

I chose my electric Water pump as it puts out 50 GPM which is supposed to be 3,000 GPH. The reason I chose the one I did was because it's the same that's used on the Dyno where we test all the engines and there's never been a heating problem yet...

JEGS 50950 JEGS Billet Remote Water Pump



My car's not yet on the road - but I don't expect any problems with this system..

Thanks for all the replies guys. I think a 30gpm pump should be fine for my requirements (this is equivalent to the DC115lpm pump) anything more is probably a bit of over kill for me.