Engine out of chassis #103. Looking for additional info.

AWay · Oct 21, 2011

Hi all. We have this engine in the family and have been trying to unearth a bit more information about it. Perhaps some more thorough specifications, additional history, and if possible it's value.

The engine is out of car chassis #103 which raced from 1964-70. As to which period during that timeframe and even specific races, we aren't too sure.

I do apologize for the lack of information and perhaps vagueness but the motor has been sitting in the garage for years and we're just now trying to put the pieces together. Certainly you folks here are more knowledgeable on the subject matter than I and I do appreciate any assistance.

LloydGT40 · Oct 21, 2011

Re: 4 Cam 255 Indy Engine out of chassis #103. Looking for additional info.

wow that looks like it has a potential to be worth a lot of money

Mark IV · Oct 21, 2011

Re: 4 Cam 255 Indy Engine out of chassis #103. Looking for additional info.

That is not a 255 four cam Indy motor, it is a small block with Gurney-Weslake heads. Still a very nice piece!

GT103 DID have a four-cam in it for some years that William Wonder installed. William was the original owner after FAV sold the car. I have pictures of the car with four cam 255 at the 1989 GT40 reunion at Watkins Glen. I don't think Bill ever raced the car with the 255 "back in the day" i.e the 60's when he entered the car in numerous events from the Daytona Continetal to USRRC races.

AWay · Oct 21, 2011

Re: 4 Cam 255 Indy Engine out of chassis #103. Looking for additional info.

I appreciate the insight so far guys.

Rick, what period do you think this motor saw action? Earlier in the 60's or later during BW's ownership? Do you have any more specifics on the motor itself? I thought the Gurney heads were odd.

Mark IV · Oct 21, 2011

Re: 4 Cam 255 Indy Engine out of chassis #103. Looking for additional info.

AWay said:
I appreciate the insight so far guys.

Rick, what period do you think this motor saw action? Earlier in the 60's or later during BW's ownership? Do you have any more specifics on the motor itself? I thought the Gurney heads were odd.

No idea on the GW engine. perhaps a call to Bill will provide the answer? I think he still has his company on Long Island.

AWay · Oct 21, 2011

Re: 4 Cam 255 Indy Engine out of chassis #103. Looking for additional info.

Edit: I see that Larry Miller purchased the car in 2005 and it currently resides at the Shelby Museum in Boulder, CO.

Still trying to determine where/when this engine was raced in the car. Does anyone have a copy of the Spain book handy where it might detail the races ran and in what configuration? It looks like #103 only ran in 18 competition races between 1964-70.

jimbo · Oct 22, 2011

Re: 4 Cam 255 Indy Engine out of chassis #103. Looking for additional info.

From what I recall Bill telling me, he bought the car with a SBF engine in it- it may even have still had a Colotti box in it when he bought it. I think he had the Indy 4cam installed much later on; it also had EFI fitted to the 4cam engine. If that engine is from 103, it may be the engine he removed, or it may be from earlier in 103s race history, before Bill bought the car. But 103 was the first GT40 to be sold to a private owner and Bill got unofficial support from Shelby American, etc. I think if that SBF engine was in 103, it was either before Bill bought it, or it was an engine he ran in it and then took out to put the Indy engine into it. I don't know how many different SBFs the car had in it before the Indy engine was put in.

Good luck on this, it's an interesting piece of GT40 history.

Cliffbeer2 · Oct 23, 2011

Re: 4 Cam 255 Indy Engine out of chassis #103. Looking for additional info.

The Spain book indicates that 103 was last race prep'd in '65 (by Shelby) with a 325 inch SBF (previously having had a 289 Cobra engine, preceeded by a 256 4cam Indy engine). You may have the 289 Cobra engine there (with the 325 still in the car?).

Good luck with the search!

AWay · Oct 23, 2011

Re: 4 Cam 255 Indy Engine out of chassis #103. Looking for additional info.

http://shelbyamericancollection.org/collection/images/gtp103emed.jpg

The above picture is the motor in #103 as it sits in the Shelby Museum. Isn't that the 4 cam Indy motor?

Did #103 only ever compete with those three engines? (4cam Indy, 325 SBF, 289 Cobra)

SwiftDB4 · Oct 23, 2011

Re: 4 Cam 255 Indy Engine out of chassis #103. Looking for additional info.

Yes that is the Indy 4 cam engine. You can instantly tell by the reversal of intake and exhaust locations.

Did460 · Oct 23, 2011

Re: 4 Cam 255 Indy Engine out of chassis #103. Looking for additional info.

Anyone know about the internals on these engines?

SwiftDB4 · Oct 23, 2011

Re: 4 Cam 255 Indy Engine out of chassis #103. Looking for additional info.

Start here:Cushman Competition

Even though these were based off a Ford '260' block they probably share almost no parts with that stock engine. The original '260' stock block pushrod engine was used in 1963 in a Lotus 29. By 1964 Ford had redesigned this engine with an aluminum block, 4 cam heads, and fuel injection to run in a Lotus 34. I think all the internals are custom forged parts, but Jay Cushman knows these engines far better than me. AJ Foyt took over development of this engine from Ford and turbocharged it (with 160 c.i. disp.). It was used at Indy until the mid 1970's when Cosworth appeared with the DFX.

AWay · Oct 23, 2011

Re: 4 Cam 255 Indy Engine out of chassis #103. Looking for additional info.

I'm still uncertain if this motor was run during the FAV/Shelby period ('64-'65) or later during the Wonder years ('66-'70).

The Spain book makes no mention of which engines were run during ever outing of #103? I'm not familiar with how much detail the book provides.

jimbo · Oct 23, 2011

Re: 4 Cam 255 Indy Engine out of chassis #103. Looking for additional info.

That is the 4cam that Bill put in. He got those engines from AJ Foyt in Texas- bought several of them and some spares, I think. It also has electronic injection and coil pack ignition that was built by Electromotive, I think. That is the engine which was in the car when I saw it at Bill's place.

Ronnie is a member here- PM him and see if he can give you any additional information. You might also start looking for casting dates and parts codes on the motor you have- it would give useful information as to whether it was made in period.

jac mac · Oct 23, 2011

Re: 4 Cam 255 Indy Engine out of chassis #103. Looking for additional info.

Dont know which addition your reading, But I see references in mine to 256 ( pushrod? til 5th Nov 1964, then 289 til 2nd feb 1969 with a 302. It also had a a 325ci while with SAI @ nurburgring with Phil Hill on 23 may 1965.

That block of yours is a 6 bolt, so it is not a 256, might pay you to get a stroke check to check out actual CID. 289 + 2.87", 302 = 3.00", 325 =3.25".

My guess is either 289 or 302 with those GW heads.

nota2266 · Oct 24, 2011

Re: 4 Cam 255 Indy Engine out of chassis #103. Looking for additional info.

I believe history will indicate that 103 was originally built with a 4 Cam engine and was fitted with a SBF 289 for 1964 Nassau. Shelby then fitted one of his SBF 289 in about 1965 and with modified Colotti box. In this form it won the 1965 Daytona being the first GT40 to win a race. William Wonder purchased the car circa 1966 with SBF and ZF installed. William Wonder fitted the 4 Cam engine in the 80's. William Wonder sold the car via Symbolic Motor Company in 2005

Mark Clapp · Oct 24, 2011

Re: 4 Cam 255 Indy Engine out of chassis #103. Looking for additional info.

I thought that the Gurney Eagle engines were more or less a product of the Gulf/Wyer cars, which were later in 1968. I'm probably mistaken but when did GE engines go into use?

Mark IV · Oct 24, 2011

Re: 4 Cam 255 Indy Engine out of chassis #103. Looking for additional info.

Mark Clapp said:
I thought that the Gurney Eagle engines were more or less a product of the Gulf/Wyer cars, which were later in 1968. I'm probably mistaken but when did GE engines go into use?

The heads were developed in 1966 and were used from 67 on by Gurney in his Can-Am and Indy cars. Wyer used them 68/69 and possibly before at the end of 67. I think the use and race history for the Gulf cars is in "Racing in the Rain".

colin artus · Oct 24, 2011

Re: 4 Cam 255 Indy Engine out of chassis #103. Looking for additional info.

FAV developed the angled IDA intake on later GW heads around '67, so this engine would seem to be '67 or later.

jac mac · Oct 24, 2011

Re: 4 Cam 255 Indy Engine out of chassis #103. Looking for additional info.

Work on those MKIV GE heads was started in late 1966, they became widely available in 1968.
Interestingly the 325" motor was also around during the development of early MK1 & MK11 GE heads during 1965.

Engine out of chassis #103. Looking for additional info.

Andrew

Attachments

Lloyd

Rick Muck- Mark IV

Andrew

Rick Muck- Mark IV

Andrew

Jim Rosenthal

Cliff Beer

Andrew

DaveM

David in Durango

DaveM

Andrew

Jim Rosenthal

Jac Mac

Trevor Booth

Mark Clapp

Rick Muck- Mark IV

colin artus

Jac Mac

Similar threads