Can I safely do a first start (after priming the engine) of the engine w/o the serpentine belt hooked up (waiting on some final alt pieces)? Obviously the battery won't be charging and I can't let it idle for more than a minute with no waterpump spinning, but everything else is finished and I'm dying to see if it starts or blows up, lol.
Start engine w/o serpentine belt?
- Thread starter EFNFAST
- Start date
Yes you can
Ken Roberts
Supporter
I wouldn't. First start up is important for correct seating of the rings.
Yes...no....maybe.....I <3 the internet, haha :laugh:
I agree; but what does the alternator and waterpump not spinning have to do with seating the rings?
I agree; but what does the alternator and waterpump not spinning have to do with seating the rings?
Ken Roberts
Supporter
First start is important....you definitely want to run it for more than a minute but it's your rings.....lol
It takes far more than the first start to seat rings.....dont forget its actually load that helps to seat rings not just starting and running the engine.
Besides ,its not going to be the first start of the engine as all crate engines are started prior to shipping....some even on lpg.
Besides ,its not going to be the first start of the engine as all crate engines are started prior to shipping....some even on lpg.
These directions should have come with you crate - if not:
Start-up and Break-in Procedures
Safety first. If the vehicle is on the ground, be sure the emergency brake is set, the wheels are chocked
and the car cannot fall into gear. Verify everything is installed properly and nothing was missed.
1. This engine assembly needs to be filled with oil. After installing the engine, ensure the crankcase has
been filled with the appropriate motor oil to the recommended oil fill level on the dipstick. The LS376/480
crate engine requires a special oil meeting GM Standard GM4718M (this will be specified on the oil label).
Mobil 1 is one such recommended oil. Other oils meeting this standard may be identified as synthetic. However,
not all synthetic oils will meet this GM standard. Look for and use only an oil that meets GM Standard
GM4718M. Also check and fill as required any other necessary fluids such as coolant, power steering fluid,
etc.
2. The engine should be primed with oil before starting. Install an oil pressure gauge (the existing oil pressure
sensor location at the upper rear of the engine may be used) and disconnect the engine control system (removing
power from the engine control module is generally recommended, but check your engine control system
information for additional details). Note: Disconnecting only ignition or fuel injector connectors is not
recommended – make sure the control system will not provide ignition or fuel to the engine.
3. Once the engine control system has been disconnected, crank the engine using the starter for 10 seconds
and check for oil pressure. If no pressure is indicated, wait 30 seconds and crank again for 10 seconds.
Repeat this process until oil pressure is indicated on the gauge.
4. Reconnect the engine control system. Start the engine and listen for any unusual noises. If no unusual
noises are noted, run the engine at approximately 1000 RPM until normal operating temperature is reached.
5. When possible, you should always allow the engine to warm up prior to driving. It is a good practice to allow
the oil sump and water temperature to reach 180°F before towing heavy loads or performing hard acceleration
runs.
6. The engine should be driven at varying loads and conditions for the first 30 miles or one hour without wide
open throttle (WOT) or sustained high RPM accelerations.
7. Run five or six medium throttle (50%) accelerations to about 4000 RPM and back to idle (0% throttle) in gear.
8. Run two or three hard throttle (WOT 100%) accelerations to about 4000 RPM and back to idle (0% throttle) in
gear.
9. Change the oil and filter. Replace the oil per the specification in step 1, and replace the filter with a new PF48
AC Delco oil filter. Inspect the oil and the oil filter for any foreign particles to ensure that the engine is functioning
properly.
10. Drive the next 500 miles (12 to 15 engine hours) under normal conditions. Do not run the engine at its maximum
rated engine speed. Also, do not expose the engine to extended periods of high load.
11. Change the oil and filter. Again, inspect the oil and oil filter for any foreign particles to ensure that the engine
is functioning properly.
Start-up and Break-in Procedures
Safety first. If the vehicle is on the ground, be sure the emergency brake is set, the wheels are chocked
and the car cannot fall into gear. Verify everything is installed properly and nothing was missed.
1. This engine assembly needs to be filled with oil. After installing the engine, ensure the crankcase has
been filled with the appropriate motor oil to the recommended oil fill level on the dipstick. The LS376/480
crate engine requires a special oil meeting GM Standard GM4718M (this will be specified on the oil label).
Mobil 1 is one such recommended oil. Other oils meeting this standard may be identified as synthetic. However,
not all synthetic oils will meet this GM standard. Look for and use only an oil that meets GM Standard
GM4718M. Also check and fill as required any other necessary fluids such as coolant, power steering fluid,
etc.
2. The engine should be primed with oil before starting. Install an oil pressure gauge (the existing oil pressure
sensor location at the upper rear of the engine may be used) and disconnect the engine control system (removing
power from the engine control module is generally recommended, but check your engine control system
information for additional details). Note: Disconnecting only ignition or fuel injector connectors is not
recommended – make sure the control system will not provide ignition or fuel to the engine.
3. Once the engine control system has been disconnected, crank the engine using the starter for 10 seconds
and check for oil pressure. If no pressure is indicated, wait 30 seconds and crank again for 10 seconds.
Repeat this process until oil pressure is indicated on the gauge.
4. Reconnect the engine control system. Start the engine and listen for any unusual noises. If no unusual
noises are noted, run the engine at approximately 1000 RPM until normal operating temperature is reached.
5. When possible, you should always allow the engine to warm up prior to driving. It is a good practice to allow
the oil sump and water temperature to reach 180°F before towing heavy loads or performing hard acceleration
runs.
6. The engine should be driven at varying loads and conditions for the first 30 miles or one hour without wide
open throttle (WOT) or sustained high RPM accelerations.
7. Run five or six medium throttle (50%) accelerations to about 4000 RPM and back to idle (0% throttle) in gear.
8. Run two or three hard throttle (WOT 100%) accelerations to about 4000 RPM and back to idle (0% throttle) in
gear.
9. Change the oil and filter. Replace the oil per the specification in step 1, and replace the filter with a new PF48
AC Delco oil filter. Inspect the oil and the oil filter for any foreign particles to ensure that the engine is functioning
properly.
10. Drive the next 500 miles (12 to 15 engine hours) under normal conditions. Do not run the engine at its maximum
rated engine speed. Also, do not expose the engine to extended periods of high load.
11. Change the oil and filter. Again, inspect the oil and oil filter for any foreign particles to ensure that the engine
is functioning properly.
Now thats a real CYA list from GM....
With our race engines we dont use synthetic oils....good ole dinosaur oil....
Its seems its load that does most of the breaking in....
With our race engines we dont use synthetic oils....good ole dinosaur oil....
Its seems its load that does most of the breaking in....
Whilst a crate engine might be different, as Fran said, these things are always run up before they are sent out.
I have *never* and will never baby a brand new car or bike, I will thrash the living daylights out of it from day one. I WILL however, always make sure the engine is warm and up to temperature before doing so.
I have never had any engine problems on any of my vehicles and if an engine IS likely to go pop, I'll find out very quickly and it'll be in warranty when I do.
Aren't brand new cars/bikes dyno'd before they leave? Up to the red line...
I have *never* and will never baby a brand new car or bike, I will thrash the living daylights out of it from day one. I WILL however, always make sure the engine is warm and up to temperature before doing so.
I have never had any engine problems on any of my vehicles and if an engine IS likely to go pop, I'll find out very quickly and it'll be in warranty when I do.
Aren't brand new cars/bikes dyno'd before they leave? Up to the red line...
I've heard that thrashing a new engine is actually good for it and makes tighter and better seals. whether that's true or not *shrug*
I would agree with Fran. It will not be a problem. If all you're doing is starting it briefly to verify that everything works, this will not be a problem. I would recommend doing as the instructions indicate above, as far as cranking the engine long enough to get oil pressure before you start it. I usually accomplish this by simply unplugging the fuel pump while cranking.
To add a bit to this, I would also check everything you can on these engines before starting. I have yet to get a GM crate engine in here that does not have "issues". As many of you have probably already heard, the assemblers at GM are pretty good at cutting the O-ring on the oil pick-up tubes on these engines, resulting in no or low oil pressure.....which is why I would highly recommend cranking until you build a significant amount of oil pressue BEFORE starting to verify this is not the case with YOUR engine. I've had LS crate engines come in with all of the oil pan bolts left loose. I've had LS crate engines with all of the bolts on the entire rear engine cover left loose.....which you normally wouldn't think to check on a brand new engine......and once the flywheel goes on, you can't get to them to check them.....and once the engine is started and you find out there is oil pouring out of the back of the engine, you have no choice but to pull the trans, the clutch, the flywheel and fix the problem. I had an LS crate engine that they left the harmonic balancer bolt loose, and after my customer took delivery (in Germany), the bolt backed out and wore a hole in his coolant line, which dumped all of his coolant out on the street and stranded him in the middle of the street. I've had an LS crate engine that we spent 2 entire days at the dyno tuner's trying to get it to run right.....and found out at the end of day 2 that all of the intake manifold bolts were loose. On this last LS engine I got in, while pulling the valve covers off to swap them side to side, I found the heads laying full of bits of what I'm assuming is dried thread-locker, and one of the valve cover seals was rolled over and not making contact with the head, which would have resulted in a huge leak (you can see in the center photo where the seal was running....and ran right off the sealing surface):
In other words, what I'm saying is that, while the engine is out of the car.....or at least before you start it, it would be best to double check everything you can to be sure that at least everything is tight. Do not assume that your engine was properly assembled at the plant. Maybe I just have the ultimate bad luck with GM stuff.....YMMV. By all of the guys on the GTM forums that had new LS3's with no oil pressure, I know I'm not completely alone.
To add a bit to this, I would also check everything you can on these engines before starting. I have yet to get a GM crate engine in here that does not have "issues". As many of you have probably already heard, the assemblers at GM are pretty good at cutting the O-ring on the oil pick-up tubes on these engines, resulting in no or low oil pressure.....which is why I would highly recommend cranking until you build a significant amount of oil pressue BEFORE starting to verify this is not the case with YOUR engine. I've had LS crate engines come in with all of the oil pan bolts left loose. I've had LS crate engines with all of the bolts on the entire rear engine cover left loose.....which you normally wouldn't think to check on a brand new engine......and once the flywheel goes on, you can't get to them to check them.....and once the engine is started and you find out there is oil pouring out of the back of the engine, you have no choice but to pull the trans, the clutch, the flywheel and fix the problem. I had an LS crate engine that they left the harmonic balancer bolt loose, and after my customer took delivery (in Germany), the bolt backed out and wore a hole in his coolant line, which dumped all of his coolant out on the street and stranded him in the middle of the street. I've had an LS crate engine that we spent 2 entire days at the dyno tuner's trying to get it to run right.....and found out at the end of day 2 that all of the intake manifold bolts were loose. On this last LS engine I got in, while pulling the valve covers off to swap them side to side, I found the heads laying full of bits of what I'm assuming is dried thread-locker, and one of the valve cover seals was rolled over and not making contact with the head, which would have resulted in a huge leak (you can see in the center photo where the seal was running....and ran right off the sealing surface):
In other words, what I'm saying is that, while the engine is out of the car.....or at least before you start it, it would be best to double check everything you can to be sure that at least everything is tight. Do not assume that your engine was properly assembled at the plant. Maybe I just have the ultimate bad luck with GM stuff.....YMMV. By all of the guys on the GTM forums that had new LS3's with no oil pressure, I know I'm not completely alone.
That's..... crazy?! I had heard stories before but didn't realise it was that bad! What about Ford crate engines?
I've heard stories about the quality of Ford crate engines on the cobra forum.
Can't win these days with engine quality.
Oh well, I bought my engine on credit card so 4yr warranty for me .... second it drops oil pressure like that (or spews oil out the back or wherever) i'm yelling chargeback, lol.
If I was confident in building engines I'd do it myself but unfortunately however likely GM/Ford are in not building an engine right, I'd be worse.
Almost forgot my waterpump issue. Brand new GM waterpump and it was leaking out the back cover. Drained coolant, pulled the pump, pulled the back cover off, pulled the o-ring out and looked at it and it was all rough on one side. Sure enough, looked down into the O-ring groove on the WP and it looked like a cave-man had machined the o-ring groove out with a dull rock. The WP had some AN fittings welded to it (custom), so I couldn't just replace the pump with a new one unless I wanted to buy all new AN fittings and send out the new pump to have the new fittings welded on. So I broke out the popsicle sticks and sandpaper, and sanded the bottom of the o-ring groove until it was smooth enough to at least seal with the help of some permatex. Put it all back together and re-installed it, filled up the coolant again and came out the next morning to find coolant all over the floor. The waterpump housing was so porous that the coolant was running thru the aluminum into 2 different bolt-bosses on the WP and then running out from under the bolt heads. That was a fun way to spend a couple of days........