Is this possible? Can you have the body panels for the car done completely in carbon fiber? I don't mean a coating, or the carbon fiber look- I mean the actual panels themselves produced in carbon fiber. If you cannot get that done direct from Superlite, does anyone know of a carbon fiber fabricator that would take the existing panels and duplicate them in carbon fiber?
SL-C panels done in carbon fiber...
- Thread starter iansilv
- Start date
It's possible to make them in carbon, but almost no one could afford them in that material. And the lightest version of that is the "dry" look, which is probably not what you had in mind.
Then there would be the marginal decrease in weight- surely the most expensive way to lose weight in an already light car.
Finally, to have someone splash a mold off an existing body would surely raise some serious IP issues, I would imagine.
So no, it doesn't seem very feasible, or sensible.
You can lose more weight from careful selection of wheels and tires than you would lose by having a CF body. There just isn't that much weight to lose there.
Then there would be the marginal decrease in weight- surely the most expensive way to lose weight in an already light car.
Finally, to have someone splash a mold off an existing body would surely raise some serious IP issues, I would imagine.
So no, it doesn't seem very feasible, or sensible.
You can lose more weight from careful selection of wheels and tires than you would lose by having a CF body. There just isn't that much weight to lose there.
I saw the Zonda in full carbon fiber... and it got me thinking... Just the front and back parts that lift up- in carbon fiber- would be cool. And "cool" is above value estimation!
Dave Lindemann
Lifetime Supporter
A less expensive way to reduce weight in the body would be to have RCR lay them up in basic mat and cloth and then vacuum bag them rather than the current chop/strand open cure method. For increased strength and rigidity with minimal extra weight add some foam core to critical areas. I just finished a foam core vacuum bagged test piece last weekend and the result is nothing short of amazing - smooth surfaces, extreme rigidity, and very light weight. I'll be testing it on my Lotus project and if that shows positive results I'll be adding vacuum bagged foam core reinforcements to my SLC.
Of course, using a mat/cloth/foam core lay-up would increase the cost of the body but the accuracy of the lay-up and the reduced resin weight would be significant IMO - even on an already "Superlight" body.
Dave L
Of course, using a mat/cloth/foam core lay-up would increase the cost of the body but the accuracy of the lay-up and the reduced resin weight would be significant IMO - even on an already "Superlight" body.
Dave L
It's possible to make them in carbon, but almost no one could afford them in that material. And the lightest version of that is the "dry" look, which is probably not what you had in mind.
Then there would be the marginal decrease in weight- surely the most expensive way to lose weight in an already light car.
Finally, to have someone splash a mold off an existing body would surely raise some serious IP issues, I would imagine.
So no, it doesn't seem very feasible, or sensible.
You can lose more weight from careful selection of wheels and tires than you would lose by having a CF body. There just isn't that much weight to lose there.
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Fran Hall RCR
GT40s Sponsor
We will be laying up some sections of an SLC body in carbon fibre in the new year...we are going to try it for cosmetic reasons initially/
We will also be experimenting with a lightweight carbon body for an existing race SLC very soon......
As Dave says vacuum bagging/resin infusion is a good way of reducing the resin amount in a part but that requires a different type of mould than the ones we use for the SLC
We will also be experimenting with a lightweight carbon body for an existing race SLC very soon......
As Dave says vacuum bagging/resin infusion is a good way of reducing the resin amount in a part but that requires a different type of mould than the ones we use for the SLC
I've always been interested in the reality of how much you'd actually save between a carbon body and a fibreglass one, I mean, the entire SL-C body can't weight much at all, so I'm guessing even if you made it entirely carbon fibre, the weight savings would be minimal but the cost would be astronomical.
Here's something that one or more of you may be able to take advantage of to get carbon fibre parts. David Algie used to work for Andretti Green racing; has been working for years to build a carbon fibre airplane kit; makes gorgeous, high-quality carbon fibre parts; and has recently had to contend with a significant business reorganization. As a consequence, he is (in addition to offering classes on composite construction) now seeking to take on some additional composite fabrication work to help generate enough revenue to bring his LP1 airplane project through the very last stages before kits can be sold.
If you've got an idea for some race car part in carbon fibre, but you don't have the skills, autoclaves or other necessities to make it happen on your own, then David might just be your man right now.
If you've got an idea for some race car part in carbon fibre, but you don't have the skills, autoclaves or other necessities to make it happen on your own, then David might just be your man right now.
OK- EVO does an article on driving the carbon fiber zonda- this is the look I am talking about:
Pagani Zonda 760RS - the most extreme Zonda review and pictures | evo
Pagani Zonda 760RS - the most extreme Zonda review and pictures | evo
Fran Hall RCR
GT40s Sponsor
I will gladly take your 1.5 mill pounds (2.4 million bucks ) and build you a car to rival that one....jeez..I would even do it for 10% less without you twisting my arm too hard.
LOL! Oh this is the beauty of your SL-C: I get to build something that I truly consider to be mine- and it can be equal to whatever is on the road in terms of performance.
And that LeMans- man that thing looks fun! Check your PM from me Fran- I had some questions for you.
Hello Fran
Using existing molds and a very special quality of low temperature Prepeg carbon fiber can give you avery light and very nice look result ( see my chopper using this process some year ago )
As usal it's only time and time is money !!
The fact is you need an autoclave able to handle molds volume ( need a cure of 12 hours at 50 to 60 °c and then out of molds another cure at 90 ° C for 4 hours )
Another big work is to achieve very neat biiiiiiiiiiiiiig vacuum bag around each mold and this is a lot of hours to check and seal any vacuum leak
for now I know only one factory in Italy able to do a good work using polyester molds ( and not epoxy as usual in carbon world) and that low temp carbon Prepeg)
Using existing molds and a very special quality of low temperature Prepeg carbon fiber can give you avery light and very nice look result ( see my chopper using this process some year ago )
As usal it's only time and time is money !!
The fact is you need an autoclave able to handle molds volume ( need a cure of 12 hours at 50 to 60 °c and then out of molds another cure at 90 ° C for 4 hours )
Another big work is to achieve very neat biiiiiiiiiiiiiig vacuum bag around each mold and this is a lot of hours to check and seal any vacuum leak
for now I know only one factory in Italy able to do a good work using polyester molds ( and not epoxy as usual in carbon world) and that low temp carbon Prepeg)
Attachments
If you search the Superlight forum, you will find at least 491 mentions of money.
Four hundred ninety one.
The vast majority of these references say something like this: "I'd like to get _____, but I cannot afford it."
We dream about clothing our SL-C's with carbon fiber, but it is expensive.
Gizmodo.com has a good explanation as to why: Why Is Carbon Fiber So Expensive? And Gizmodo is just talking about making the cloth! Add the epoxy resins, and the huge expenses of Fran engineering for the right applications:
The costs go through the roof! In order to eat, Fran must pass these costs onto us, his customers. We would be paying through the nose for our carbon fiber SL-C bodies.
Fran knows our dream is: "Well, ___ manufacturer can do ____ for $_____, but I can do that for half as much!" So Fran makes his SL-C bodies out of glass fiber, not carbon. To fulfill our dreams.
Les
Four hundred ninety one.
The vast majority of these references say something like this: "I'd like to get _____, but I cannot afford it."
We dream about clothing our SL-C's with carbon fiber, but it is expensive.
Gizmodo.com has a good explanation as to why: Why Is Carbon Fiber So Expensive? And Gizmodo is just talking about making the cloth! Add the epoxy resins, and the huge expenses of Fran engineering for the right applications:
- the right kinds of cloth,
- the right thicknesses,
- the right weaves,
- the correct resins
- the plugs he would need to make
- the molds
- the huge autoclaves
- the big vacuum bags
- the buildings he would need to build to house it all
The costs go through the roof! In order to eat, Fran must pass these costs onto us, his customers. We would be paying through the nose for our carbon fiber SL-C bodies.
Fran knows our dream is: "Well, ___ manufacturer can do ____ for $_____, but I can do that for half as much!" So Fran makes his SL-C bodies out of glass fiber, not carbon. To fulfill our dreams.
Les
In this video, Christian von Koenigsegg, the maker of the Koenigsegg Agera R, explains a little bit about their carbon fiber parts manufacturing. In this video he explains the effort needed to make one simple part: a tube.
In the video, Mr. Koenigsegg says, "It's really a labor-intensive process. and the persons involved in the process really need to know what they are doing to get the desired result.. . . you can vary the strengths and the thicknesses in different areas (of a part) with no limit. It's only how much thought you want to put into it and how much labor you want to put into it. Not many other materials give that kind of freedom. At the same time, not many other materials can soak up so much time in the production process" (edited for clarity).
Unca Fran would have to go through all the very many long, slow engineering hours for each of the SL-C's carbon fiber parts, like Mr. Koenigsegg has done, and Fran's workers would have to go through all the long, slow hours of production. It all means: very expensive.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/504I_hJDFck?feature=player_profilepage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
In the video, Mr. Koenigsegg says, "It's really a labor-intensive process. and the persons involved in the process really need to know what they are doing to get the desired result.. . . you can vary the strengths and the thicknesses in different areas (of a part) with no limit. It's only how much thought you want to put into it and how much labor you want to put into it. Not many other materials give that kind of freedom. At the same time, not many other materials can soak up so much time in the production process" (edited for clarity).
Unca Fran would have to go through all the very many long, slow engineering hours for each of the SL-C's carbon fiber parts, like Mr. Koenigsegg has done, and Fran's workers would have to go through all the long, slow hours of production. It all means: very expensive.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/504I_hJDFck?feature=player_profilepage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Yeah, see the thing is, some things are worth making out of carbon fibre, others? Not so much...
I mean really, how much vs. cost are you ACTUALLY saving with turbo piping for example.
It's lovely to watch but the Agera R STILL weighs in at 2850lbs or about 1.3 tonnes for us metric people.
I mean really, how much vs. cost are you ACTUALLY saving with turbo piping for example.
It's lovely to watch but the Agera R STILL weighs in at 2850lbs or about 1.3 tonnes for us metric people.
Oh,, get with the times,,, Carbon Fiber is so last century...lol, we need to start looking into Buckypaper.
Scientists are reporting development of a new form of buckypaper, which eliminates a major drawback of these sheets of carbon nanotubes -- 50,000 times thinner than a human hair, 10 times lighter than steel, but up to 250 times stronger -- with potential uses ranging from body armor to next-generation batteries.
Scientists are reporting development of a new form of buckypaper, which eliminates a major drawback of these sheets of carbon nanotubes -- 50,000 times thinner than a human hair, 10 times lighter than steel, but up to 250 times stronger -- with potential uses ranging from body armor to next-generation batteries.
What bike -- I only see a young lady holding an umbrella....
