Installing Panels
- Thread starter JayT
- Start date
From what I have seen it varies depending upon the kit you buy and the options. A lot of the discussions lately (and recent pictures) have been about the Roaring Forties kit. This is the one I have. Some of the other Australian kits seem to have a bit less panelling than the RF, but its hard to be sure without building one. I can't speak for kits like ERA which are not available in Australia.
It took me most of a year to make all the panels and temporarily fit them. I did choose to cut all the panels myself from sheet, Roaring Forties can sell you the panels already cut, but my understanding is that you have to bend and fit them.
One option which you may be able to organise is to get the factory to do the panelling for you. These cars are individually built so all sorts of options should be possible with appropriate variations in the price.
One thing to remember though. While you do need some basic amount of metal working skills, you can replace a lack of skill with a lot of care and patience. I work in an office and have no formal training in sheet metalwork. It has taken me a lot of time, but I now have an almost complete chassis. If I can do it, probably almost anyone can.
As I do have a welder, I did make myself a sheet metal bender before I started building. That proved quite worthwhile.
Good Luck
John
It took me most of a year to make all the panels and temporarily fit them. I did choose to cut all the panels myself from sheet, Roaring Forties can sell you the panels already cut, but my understanding is that you have to bend and fit them.
One option which you may be able to organise is to get the factory to do the panelling for you. These cars are individually built so all sorts of options should be possible with appropriate variations in the price.
One thing to remember though. While you do need some basic amount of metal working skills, you can replace a lack of skill with a lot of care and patience. I work in an office and have no formal training in sheet metalwork. It has taken me a lot of time, but I now have an almost complete chassis. If I can do it, probably almost anyone can.
As I do have a welder, I did make myself a sheet metal bender before I started building. That proved quite worthwhile.
Good Luck
John
I had no previous experience in metalwork but figured that if it can be done, then I can do it – which is probably the approach you must have when building a kit car in general. I think that it could be said that if you possess the manual skills to build the rest of the car, then there is no reason why you could not easily develop the skills required to manufacture the panels.
I allowed myself a few disasters, but ended up with only some minor initial mistakes. Aluminium sheeting is an easy and forgiving material to work with, and not prohibitively expensive in the event that you make a big mistake.
I made my panels using very simple tools, the most complex being a jigsaw and files to cut the shape, and angle-irons and clamps to bend. I used lots of masking tape to avoid scratching the aluminium. The panels of medium complexity took about one full day to make the cardboard template and another to make the panel itself. Of coarse, the advantage of making your own panels is that you can determine for yourself where you would like the access holes etc to be located.
I allowed myself a few disasters, but ended up with only some minor initial mistakes. Aluminium sheeting is an easy and forgiving material to work with, and not prohibitively expensive in the event that you make a big mistake.
I made my panels using very simple tools, the most complex being a jigsaw and files to cut the shape, and angle-irons and clamps to bend. I used lots of masking tape to avoid scratching the aluminium. The panels of medium complexity took about one full day to make the cardboard template and another to make the panel itself. Of coarse, the advantage of making your own panels is that you can determine for yourself where you would like the access holes etc to be located.
Jay,
I have completed all the panels for my car. The panels for my RFGT40 were pre- cut by RF on a computor driven plasma cutter. Usually the panels are also pre bent but they take up way too much room in the shipping crate so they ship them flat. All the holes are pre-cut. all you have to do is bend the flanges. I went with stainless steel instead of aluminum. I have had no problems with bending or drilling the stainless. It sure looks awsome ! The more I work on this car the more I feel I made the right choice. I am amazed at how well the panels and all the other items fit. The inside looks huge to me. It's obvious that a lot of time went into the design to make more room. I read the post on the difference between the latter space frame and the monocoque with great interest. It's hard to believe that this RF frame could flex much with these panels in place. If it does I'm sure it's not much and it's probably a benifit for street driving.
I didn't buy the car because it was roomy inside. I chose it mainly because of the clean looking frame and most important the suspension. I really like the A arms and the 13" rotors and four piston calipers up front. It has 12" in the rear. To me it's just as important that the car stops well as goes fast. But you know the one thing that really cynched it for me was when I saw the car at Knotts. I climbed inside and when I shut the door it made a nice muffled thud when it closed and it was suddenly very quiet. The engine noise was no where near as loud as I expected, As a matter of fact I was a little disappointed that it was sooo quiet. Maybe it was because it had mufflers and cats on it. Mine won't have no stinkin' cats.
Whatever any of you prospective buyers do you must look at all the cars available to you. Pick the one that fits you best.
Hersh
I have completed all the panels for my car. The panels for my RFGT40 were pre- cut by RF on a computor driven plasma cutter. Usually the panels are also pre bent but they take up way too much room in the shipping crate so they ship them flat. All the holes are pre-cut. all you have to do is bend the flanges. I went with stainless steel instead of aluminum. I have had no problems with bending or drilling the stainless. It sure looks awsome ! The more I work on this car the more I feel I made the right choice. I am amazed at how well the panels and all the other items fit. The inside looks huge to me. It's obvious that a lot of time went into the design to make more room. I read the post on the difference between the latter space frame and the monocoque with great interest. It's hard to believe that this RF frame could flex much with these panels in place. If it does I'm sure it's not much and it's probably a benifit for street driving.
I didn't buy the car because it was roomy inside. I chose it mainly because of the clean looking frame and most important the suspension. I really like the A arms and the 13" rotors and four piston calipers up front. It has 12" in the rear. To me it's just as important that the car stops well as goes fast. But you know the one thing that really cynched it for me was when I saw the car at Knotts. I climbed inside and when I shut the door it made a nice muffled thud when it closed and it was suddenly very quiet. The engine noise was no where near as loud as I expected, As a matter of fact I was a little disappointed that it was sooo quiet. Maybe it was because it had mufflers and cats on it. Mine won't have no stinkin' cats.
Whatever any of you prospective buyers do you must look at all the cars available to you. Pick the one that fits you best.
Hersh
Hershal, when you did your panel work did you use an electric or pneumatic drill, and did you use a pneumatic pop rivet gun? Now that I am about to begin any advice is welcome. I also seem to remember you had posted pictures of the paneled chassi but I can not find them. Could you direct me to the location.
Robert Logan
Defunct Manufactuer - Old RF Company
John,
Nice to see you on the forum.
I had a look at John's car last Christmas in Canberra at his home as I took the oportunity to deliver some parts personally. I was most suprised at the quality of his work. As he has said he works in an office and has no formal training in this ART !
His panel fit is GREAT, his body fit is as good as I have seen on a customer built car and this is due mainly to his pacients (I just cant spell). In my opinion this is the key to a great finished car.
Hersh, Ron , Bob , John et all,
I watch with pride the progress of all your cars on the 'owners gallery' and Hershals stainless steel skinned RF40 I look forward to seeing soon.
Best wishes,
Robert
Nice to see you on the forum.
I had a look at John's car last Christmas in Canberra at his home as I took the oportunity to deliver some parts personally. I was most suprised at the quality of his work. As he has said he works in an office and has no formal training in this ART !
His panel fit is GREAT, his body fit is as good as I have seen on a customer built car and this is due mainly to his pacients (I just cant spell). In my opinion this is the key to a great finished car.
Hersh, Ron , Bob , John et all,
I watch with pride the progress of all your cars on the 'owners gallery' and Hershals stainless steel skinned RF40 I look forward to seeing soon.
Best wishes,
Robert
Congratulations Jay !
I know you and your son will have a fun time
together building this car. At first it
will be a little overwhelming when you start
unpacking the big box. Soon after you get
started you will fall into a rythem of
understanding ahat goes where. Remember too
that I and the others are here to help you
along. You can't go wrong with the support
that RF gives as well.
Yes I have the pneumatic riveter. I bought
it from Harbor frieght for $28. and it
works great. I also purchased a 4ft metal
break from www.grizzly.com for $450. I'm
glad I bought it because I really needed one
for other projects as well. One other tool
that I bought was an electric pair of
Boech metal hand shears. These cut like
sissors without material loss. Probably
the single best tool I ever bought for this
project. Another good tool is a good
battery powered drill. Mine is a Porter-
cable 19 volt. You also must by some Clecos
and Cleco pliers. These are used to
temporarily hold the panels in place until
you rivet them. I will post the place to get
them as soon as I find the site again.
My web site is at www.gt40andcobralover.com
There are several pictures on the site and I
will be adding more soon.
Just to give you an idea as to how quick the
paneling goes on, I took two weeks to do
mine. Then when John Schnieder's car was
brought here to my house I did most all
of the paneling with John's help in less
than three hours. That included the time
it took to put it on the homemade rotissere.
It went that quick because I new
where it all fit without having to double
check everything.
I know you devoured the pictures on the RF
site but when you get that manual start
devouring.
That alone will prevent you
from making small mistakes. I was a little
confused about some of the stuff in the
manual but after I learned how to speak
Austrailian it made a lot more sense.
Wait til you get a load of the wiring
harness that comes with the car. It's
plug and play. Robert's wiring and
electrical guy, Fehey, is a bloody genious !
The wires come out of the loom right
where they are supposed to.
Oh yeah, one more guy at RF you will be
talking to is Will. The guy knows as much
as Robert does about building
these cars.
One more thing Jay, I spent 2 hours
looking for a part in my kit called bundy.
I had no idea what the hell it was but I
was sure it wasn't in the kit. Upon calling
Robert I asked him where is my Bundy and
what the hell is it ? It turns out that
bundy is a roll of gas or brake line. I
never heard that term in my life. I guess
they got a good laugh out of that one.
Well good luck and try to be patient, yeah
right, You'll be climbing the wall til that
kit gets there.
Hersh
PS... Here is the site for the Clecos.
Cheapest price around. http://www.browntool.com/category.asp?ParentCode=K15&HeaderURL=&FooterURL=&CategoryTitle=KWIKLOK+TEMPORARY+FASTENERS+%28CLECOS%29
[ April 27, 2002: Message edited by: Hershal Byrd ]
I know you and your son will have a fun time
together building this car. At first it
will be a little overwhelming when you start
unpacking the big box. Soon after you get
started you will fall into a rythem of
understanding ahat goes where. Remember too
that I and the others are here to help you
along. You can't go wrong with the support
that RF gives as well.
Yes I have the pneumatic riveter. I bought
it from Harbor frieght for $28. and it
works great. I also purchased a 4ft metal
break from www.grizzly.com for $450. I'm
glad I bought it because I really needed one
for other projects as well. One other tool
that I bought was an electric pair of
Boech metal hand shears. These cut like
sissors without material loss. Probably
the single best tool I ever bought for this
project. Another good tool is a good
battery powered drill. Mine is a Porter-
cable 19 volt. You also must by some Clecos
and Cleco pliers. These are used to
temporarily hold the panels in place until
you rivet them. I will post the place to get
them as soon as I find the site again.
My web site is at www.gt40andcobralover.com
There are several pictures on the site and I
will be adding more soon.
Just to give you an idea as to how quick the
paneling goes on, I took two weeks to do
mine. Then when John Schnieder's car was
brought here to my house I did most all
of the paneling with John's help in less
than three hours. That included the time
it took to put it on the homemade rotissere.
It went that quick because I new
where it all fit without having to double
check everything.
I know you devoured the pictures on the RF
site but when you get that manual start
devouring.
from making small mistakes. I was a little
confused about some of the stuff in the
manual but after I learned how to speak
Austrailian it made a lot more sense.
Wait til you get a load of the wiring
harness that comes with the car. It's
plug and play. Robert's wiring and
electrical guy, Fehey, is a bloody genious !
The wires come out of the loom right
where they are supposed to.
Oh yeah, one more guy at RF you will be
talking to is Will. The guy knows as much
as Robert does about building
these cars.
One more thing Jay, I spent 2 hours
looking for a part in my kit called bundy.
I had no idea what the hell it was but I
was sure it wasn't in the kit. Upon calling
Robert I asked him where is my Bundy and
what the hell is it ? It turns out that
bundy is a roll of gas or brake line. I
never heard that term in my life. I guess
they got a good laugh out of that one.
Well good luck and try to be patient, yeah
right, You'll be climbing the wall til that
kit gets there.
Hersh
PS... Here is the site for the Clecos.
Cheapest price around. http://www.browntool.com/category.asp?ParentCode=K15&HeaderURL=&FooterURL=&CategoryTitle=KWIKLOK+TEMPORARY+FASTENERS+%28CLECOS%29
[ April 27, 2002: Message edited by: Hershal Byrd ]
Jay,
Here is the metal shears I have... http://www.toolsforless.com/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/cgi-bin/pdbsearch3.pl?U+scstore+fdff3428sdnb8808ff940694+fdff3428sdnb8808ff940694
Here is the metal shears I have... http://www.toolsforless.com/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/cgi-bin/pdbsearch3.pl?U+scstore+fdff3428sdnb8808ff940694+fdff3428sdnb8808ff940694
G
Guest
Guest
For temporary fitting of ali pannels can you guys get hold of rivet clamps? These clamp the panel to the chassis through the hole you drilled for the rivet itself. About 10 of these cheap clamps will help no end in trial fitting panels.
Malcolm
Malcolm
Hey Malcolm,
That's what Clecos are, read my post above.
there is a link to a site that sells them cheaper than anyone.
Hersh
That's what Clecos are, read my post above.
there is a link to a site that sells them cheaper than anyone.
Hersh
Congratulations from me also Jay. It appears you have decided to jump into the deep end of the pool with the rest of us. It can be a bit daunting at first, but it does get better.
I can only agree with the sentiments of the others on this thread. Robert told me to take my time when I started and that is still the best advice.
Thanks for your comments about my work Robert, I am proud of what we (RF and I) have achieved. Robert is also correct in that I have forced myself to be very patient in doing the body work. For me the quality of the results have been directly related to the care taken when doing the job. Now that the hard parts are done I am pleased I was careful.
As Hersh has already said, there is lots of support on this forum and from RF. If in doubt ask.
Good Luck
John
I can only agree with the sentiments of the others on this thread. Robert told me to take my time when I started and that is still the best advice.
Thanks for your comments about my work Robert, I am proud of what we (RF and I) have achieved. Robert is also correct in that I have forced myself to be very patient in doing the body work. For me the quality of the results have been directly related to the care taken when doing the job. Now that the hard parts are done I am pleased I was careful.
As Hersh has already said, there is lots of support on this forum and from RF. If in doubt ask.
Good Luck
John
Hey guys
Glad to see some postings on the panel installations. I hope to haave my order in by summer and the panels were my greatest concern
There is another place for the Cleos(?) it is The Eastwood Co.web page
I hope I posted this correctly?
They have some cool stuff. John could you send some pics of your brake. I have gone to several auctions trying to purchase a brake. The prices have been in the 350 to 450$ range for industrial 4 ft. brakes. There is an Auction Block section in our Atlanta newspaper that list companys that go up on the block. You can pick up some good bargains if you know your prices, and can make it to a sale during the week.Your dealing with people in the industry who know the worth of the equipment. The puplic auctions on weekends will runup the prices.
I'll probably be contacting one and all when I get started. I have seen a Tornado unit in the build stage by an engineer.( has been building it for 5 years) He used to work on the concept cars and has built it, taken it apart and built it a second time to add panels that were left out or were saftey concerns.( the fuel filler lines were not sealed off from the passenger compartment) He also did some novel things to align the doors by fashioning brackets that allowed the door to moved in two directions so that he could align the door and tighten it down exactly where he wanted it.
Keep up the postings as I am sure I will have many questions during my build.
Bill
Glad to see some postings on the panel installations. I hope to haave my order in by summer and the panels were my greatest concern
There is another place for the Cleos(?) it is The Eastwood Co.web page
I hope I posted this correctly?
They have some cool stuff. John could you send some pics of your brake. I have gone to several auctions trying to purchase a brake. The prices have been in the 350 to 450$ range for industrial 4 ft. brakes. There is an Auction Block section in our Atlanta newspaper that list companys that go up on the block. You can pick up some good bargains if you know your prices, and can make it to a sale during the week.Your dealing with people in the industry who know the worth of the equipment. The puplic auctions on weekends will runup the prices.
I'll probably be contacting one and all when I get started. I have seen a Tornado unit in the build stage by an engineer.( has been building it for 5 years) He used to work on the concept cars and has built it, taken it apart and built it a second time to add panels that were left out or were saftey concerns.( the fuel filler lines were not sealed off from the passenger compartment) He also did some novel things to align the doors by fashioning brackets that allowed the door to moved in two directions so that he could align the door and tighten it down exactly where he wanted it.
Keep up the postings as I am sure I will have many questions during my build.
Bill
G
Guest
Guest
Hi Hersh
I had a look at the link and I think we are talking the same kind of thing but what I had in mind looks like what is shown here...
http://www.skinpins.co.uk/content/products/fasteners/manual/index.htm
Eitehr way these things are useful and I just wish I had known about them 12 years ago when I did my panelling!
Malcolm
PS Hersh, was it you that came to UK and even to Farnborough and didn't look me up?
I had a look at the link and I think we are talking the same kind of thing but what I had in mind looks like what is shown here...
http://www.skinpins.co.uk/content/products/fasteners/manual/index.htm
Eitehr way these things are useful and I just wish I had known about them 12 years ago when I did my panelling!
Malcolm
PS Hersh, was it you that came to UK and even to Farnborough and didn't look me up?
To me the paneling was the easiest part
of the build. Mainly because I have built
five experimental aircraft which required
a lot of panel work. The Clecos are
invaluable.
The most difficult part of the build is
by far the body and paint prepatations. It
takes a lot of time to get it just right.
Malcolm, I have never been to the UK.
When I do come for a visit you can bet I
will not leave until I meet some of you
GT40 crazies. I am really impressed at all
the things you guys know about these
cars. I mostly envy the many events you have
just for the GT40. I hope the USA eventually
catches up to you guys.
Hersh
of the build. Mainly because I have built
five experimental aircraft which required
a lot of panel work. The Clecos are
invaluable.
The most difficult part of the build is
by far the body and paint prepatations. It
takes a lot of time to get it just right.
Malcolm, I have never been to the UK.
When I do come for a visit you can bet I
will not leave until I meet some of you
GT40 crazies. I am really impressed at all
the things you guys know about these
cars. I mostly envy the many events you have
just for the GT40. I hope the USA eventually
catches up to you guys.
Hersh
I have finally got pictures of the bender. Hopefully I can post them properly. LEts see.
The bender is 1.3 metres long. This has proved long enough for my purpose but has also proved too long for thick material.
The first bit is the lower jaws. This is clamped to to the bench. It is made up of 50mm steel angle behind the work and a 50mm wide flat strip supported by 40mm channel which was made up from angle and another piece of flat. Real channel would probably be better.
The material to be bent is clamped between the rear angle and the flat strip by bolts which clamp the bits together.
The bender is 1.3 metres long. This has proved long enough for my purpose but has also proved too long for thick material.
The first bit is the lower jaws. This is clamped to to the bench. It is made up of 50mm steel angle behind the work and a 50mm wide flat strip supported by 40mm channel which was made up from angle and another piece of flat. Real channel would probably be better.
The material to be bent is clamped between the rear angle and the flat strip by bolts which clamp the bits together.
