Differences between 302 and 351W ?

The other thread about Clevland vs. Windsor brought other questions to my mind. I know that 351's have a taller deck and a longer rod. Does it make more sense to build a 351W vs. a 347 (stroked 302)? More torque? clearance problems in a GT40? Exhaust availability? Does it "look" wrong in a GT40? Will people give you shit about having the wrong motor? What about Clevland heads on a Windsor? How about a 392W stroker? Bellhousing bolt pattern differences? Sorry for so many questions, but I know you guys have all the answers?

Thanks:


Jeff

Jeff, Although not done with my GTD. I have been told that the 351 block with the taller deck is a tight fit without lowering the engine. I would think that with tall covers for roller rockers, the clearance problem would be even worse. I think there are plenty of exhaust to choose from either way. And most people don't even have the foggiest idea what the car is to begin with, so I don't think they will recognize the different block, drop a chevy in though, and get ready for some feedback at some point.
A 302 is going to be plenty though, juice it up to 375 HP or so and the ride will be adequate. I prefer to go the route of some of my buddies in the UK, build it lighter, less inertia to overcome, brake in the corners later and come out faster....So forget the A/C, the radio, the rugs, the headliner the heater, and whatever else can be left in the corner of the garage....
Brian

How fast ($$$) do you want to go?
Is this mainly for street or track?

You can build 347 street motor today to run RELIABLY at 400 hp. Will cost a little more than a 400 hp 351W, but the packaging is simpler with the 302 block.

If you're looking for MAXIMUM streetable
horsepower, it's hard to beat a 351W stroker.
But the associated costs of packaging,
and beefing up the driveline escalate VERY
quickly.

MikeD

The 351W is a tight fit. Lowering the
engine cradle is a must.

I'd recommend a 306 or a 331. 347s a great,
but longevity and reliability are questionable
according to a lot of the builders I've seen
quoted. The wrist pins intersect with the
rings on the piston, so the oil seal is
less than perfect. Some companies, Coast High
Performance for one, use a slightly different
piston, which lowers the wrist pin, but they
still consume more oil.

Ask Gordon Levy, he's built some real nice
306s. They could give any 351W stroker a run for the money.

Ian

I understand that there were 302(5.0L) blocks cast in Mexico that had a high nickel content and are supposed to be the best for HI-PO use. Can anyone provide details on what to look/ask for to get one of these if this is indeed true?

[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: Lynn Larsen ]

I've run several 347 motors and have one ready to go into my car. Yes, the oil ring typically cuts into the pin area leading to blow by. I've used gapless rings which tend to reduce consumption. A 347 in a daily driver may not be the best choice but on a specialty vehicle it's fine. A streetable 500HP 347 is not unusual.

Lynn - The stock block is OK for most street/comp applications. The mexican blocks were not available as a standalone. They can be found, I'm not sure about identifying markings. The old A4 block has additional webbing material in the lower end. This blobk is no longer available though. Ford introduced a replacement block
P/N M-6010-R302 for HiPo use. About US$1.6k and similar to the A4. I used a stock block with stud girdle on a past buildup and it's a stout piece. I'd love to build an all aluminum motor but the block cost was a bit much...

A short deck height 351W from Ford SVO may be just the ticket for you. I have a stroked (392cuin) version of that in one of my other toys. You might also try Jim Green's performance shop in Seattle WA. phone 425-774-3507. He is am old time Ford racer with lots of old stock tucked away. He has helped me find some un-obtanium and is a very good to deal with.

Is a 331 cubic inch the old "truck" engine? cb

Chip:

A 331 is a stroked 302.


Jeff

There is also a tall deck 302 (8.7" deck height) now available from ford performance parts. It is supposedly capable of 380c.i. and represents an interesting option. Of course intake manifold availability becomes a consideration but should not be an issue forever as aftermarkets catch up (or go with an FI unit from Kinlser or TMW).

Jeff,

If you have 351 cleveland heads, why not modifying them and bolt them on to 302?

That´s as close as you can get the Boss.
I believe that high revving 302 beats the strokers for sound, correctness and --price.

Jukka

Going the "Boss 302" route with the Cleveland heads is an expensive way to go, and the heads are very heavy. Why limit yourself to the rare and pricey Boss intake & exhaust manifolds? You can get just as much power (maybe more) with a good set of aftermarket aluminum heads. I've heard a lot of good things about the 185cc heads from Air Flow Research (commonly known as AFR185).

If you want a good education on all the wonderful things you can do with a small block Ford I would recommend www.corral.net/forums and click on the Windsor forum. There are some very experienced and knowledgeable Mustang enthusiasts there that have done great things with their engines.