How would you design a new GT40 from the ground up?

I guess the most obvious answer is that you'd do it exactly like the original. I believe Dave Brown has a set of blueprints. And, that the purist in me would agree. But, that would ignore so many innovations that have been made in the the last 30 years.

Would you use aluminum for the chassis? Carbon Fiber? Are there any engineers out there?

Would you throw in some of the changes that the latest GT40 concept car made? Size (for some of the larger drivers out there), body design, chassis changes (like the narrow door sills)?

What do you think?

Doug
 
Hi Doug

This is how the Germans do it!!
The company is Meyers Cars.
I think it would pass the crash test!!

This is not the way I would do it!!!!!!!!
Chris
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[ February 19, 2002: Message edited by: Chris Melia ]
 

Jim Rosenthal

Supporter
First off, I wouldn't fool around with the shape. The body style is one of the greatest things about a GT40,and with modern materials, you can have a car with no bumpers etc and have an impact-absorbing front and rear.
Second; don't fool with the layout- keep it mid-engine, rear-wheel-drive. But change the transmission to a transverse arrangement like the Ferrari 355 has; it gains you some space inside which might translate into better space for taller drivers.
Third: try to put the radiators in the back, alongside the engine out in the wings, which gains space up front. You could then accommodate luggage which would make the car slightly more practical for touring and so on.
Fourth: roll-down windows, or something for better ventilation than the original has.The changes made on some original cars (sliding windows, vent bubbles, etc) are valuable criticisms of the initial design. There isn't enough ventilation, especially with that big greenhouse in front.
Fifth: adjustable seats. (most replicas have this; the old ones did not, except for the Mark 3, I think)
Sixth: if you didn't have all the plumbing running back and forth inside the central tunnel, you could put the fuel supply in there, like Ford did in their concept car. I think this was a good idea from a safety standpoint- having the fuel tanks in the wing sponsons seems risky, although fuel cells make it safer by far. Also, one tank per engine, assuming it holds enough, is less complicated.
Seventh: make the chassis out of aluminum. That is the best compromise, I imagine, between strength, corrosion resistance, light weight, repairability, and stiffness, with costs factored in. Steel weighs too much, and composites cost too much and require exotic repairs if they are broken. You could save some weight by making the body from CF and Kevlar, or using more modern materials than old E-glass, but the cost goes up.
AND; use an all-aluminum engine, clearly the way to go. It would probably be sohc or dohc design, (if you were starting with a [relatively] clean sheet of paper why use old engine technology), and maybe even have forced induction of some kind, although with a car as light as this would be, maybe 1600-1800 lbs plus driver, you might not need that much power. And, modern engine technology includes things like variable valve timing, EFI, etc.
Well, that's my recipe. Now I'm going to stand back and watch the fur fly...
 
hi Jim

The car you describe sounds a bit like the Miura.
The inspiration for the Lamborghini Miura mid-engine supercar came from Ford GT40 Mk111.
This specific type of car with the mid-engine placement inspired Lamborghini to build their own supercar for the road. The V-8 placed in the GT40 was smaller than the massive 4.0 Litre V-12 Lamborghini engine, and fitting it in a chassis wasn't very simple, to overcome this problem, they placed the engine transversly in the chassis with the gearbox incorporated into the engine block, just like on the Mini Cooper.
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[ February 17, 2002: Message edited by: Chris Melia ]
 
I had no idea that they copied the GT40. Once you mentioned it, it was obvious that is what they did. The sad part is that what they changed, in the body design, I don't like. The nose especially.

I really like Jim's ideas. I would add that I like the "chin" that Ford gave the concept car.

Any other ideas?

Doug
 
Jim, I too own a F$&%#*i, a 348 Spider, and can relate to your thread on its powercurve, and drivability before its warmed up....However we must keep these Enzo conversations hush hush...before we tarred and feathered!
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Regards,

Clay
 

Jim Rosenthal

Supporter
Chris, I have to fess up and admit here before we go any further that I own a F-----i. A Mondial t 3.4 cabriolet. It has been an interesting experience, chiefly because the car was so badly neglected by its' previous owners, but the interesting thing about this car's design and the drive train, which concept it shares with the 348-360 and some of their earlier F1 cars is this: the engine is a longitudinal V8, set amidships; the transmission is turned sideways and sits over the rear axle halfshaft centerline. To describe it all is more than I want to inflict on everyone, but it has one more interesting feature; the part of the drivetrain that is farthest aft in the car is the clutch assembly, which is therefore easier to change.
What this does is package everything very compactly, and preserve the service advantages of the lengthways orientation of the V8 powerplant. Also, the weight distribution is very low in the car. I have never seen this done in any other car. As far as the transmission performance, it follows the uniquely Ferrari 4/5 system; when cold, you have four forward gears, most of which clash; they are 1,3,4,5. When it warms up you get to use second, and none of them clash. This means, when the engine is cold, you get to lug it, or let it warm up in your driveway for a bit.
Seriously, though, for driveline packaging it is a tour de force, and the fact that these drivelines have won in competition shows they can be made durable and take a lot of input power. And it does gain you some room inside the wheelbase; the Mondial, which is not a big car, seats four in a 2+2 arrangement.
 
My two bob's worth:
1. Keep that wonderful body the same.
2. Use the transverse gearbox, so as to move the motor back and allow an impact structure at the rear
3. use a modern 3 L all alloy supercharged 60 deg v6, with 4 cams. The motor would be about 150 mm shorter than the existing v8, improving space in the center of the car for fuel tankage etc.
Moving this light-weight motor rearwards would also help with the traction, as an alloy v6 might result in as little as 52 % of the weight on the rear: not enough for, say, 400 bhp.
Dare I suggest a clone of the H*nda NSX engine, purely based on the fantastically flat torque curve these motors have. An Eaton blower (like the various Jackson racing kits) would be fine.
4. Modern wide based wishbones at both ends, with the emphasis on low unsprung weight.
5. Modern lever of rolloversafety, with a fully triangulated cage, bolting onto a strong alloy monocoque
6. Variable brake proportioning according to braking effort, so wet and dry braking are both sensational.
7. Adjustable low speed damping, for track or road
8. No cupholders
9. A modern interior based on the original design themes and the Audi TT.
This beast could easily weigh under 900 kgs ready to go: 400 hp should put it on a par with the original racing 5 litre V8's.

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Just an idea!
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Hi Doug

The German chassis guy must have worked on Tiger Tanks I think. Its only short of a gun turret.

Chris
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Chris,

Looks like it. That looks like a heck of an auto.

I've done a litle bit of reading up on the original GT40, and found out that Lola originally wanted to use aluminum for the chassis. But, was overided by Ford and had to use mild steel.

If I was going to build one now I'd probably lean towards aluminum for the chassis. Probably, go for the monocoque version as well. But, I'm not an engineer by any means. Would it be viable?

Doug
 
The Germany GT40 does look great and their WEB site is very intresting. Does anyone know any more about their car.

PS Jim & GT, I also have the F-word. A Testarossa, great car - nothing beats mid engine and lots of torque. But it is too heavy.
 
I agree about the need to keep the body shape, but I also think Ford's revisited GT40 has some key improvements: a wider track and somewhat longer wheelbase would help handling, and a larger, structural central tunnel with narrower sills would improve ingress/egress and ergonomics, leave room for a shifter for us left-hand-side drivers, as well as plumbing and wiring and possibly fuel. I like turbo power, and the use of a turbocharged smaller displacement engine could allow a modern DOHC layout without sacrificing too much in the way of fitment, particularly in the vertical direction. Finally, I would set it up to use Porsche's Composite Ceramic brake rotor technology to reduce unsprung weight and of course improve braking. Hey, a man can dream, right?
 

Jim Rosenthal

Supporter
You know, regarding aluminum tubs, I believe some were made with sheet aluminum and the problem was that after a while the rivet holes start to elongate and things begin flopping around, so to speak. I think this is why the Mark 4 cars had a different type of construction which relied less on riveting alone and combined riveting with bonding and laminate construction. And they still had a learning curve to climb up; I think the wreck that caused the death of Ken Miles is thought to have possibly been due to tub failure? It seems from what I've read that you can build a tub out of aluminum, you just can't take a design made for steel panels and substitute aluminum panels and expect it to perform as original only lighter. The contruction techniques available today are better than before.
 
I agree that he original design would be inaquite for aluminum to be used when the original design called for mild steel. You'd either have to reinforce the chassis or design a whole new one.

What do you think of a slight increase in dimentions? Not as big as the concept car but something inbetween the original and the concept car.

Doug
 
Hi Doug

This car is a Dax GT40 replica owned by Alan Wright. Dax put 1.5" into the body line to make the car a GT41.5 they were sold for about two years, then dropped by Dax. I think the mold's went to India.


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