Users With Multiple Accounts

[Ron Earp]

The Admins have recently determined that there are a couple of people who are maintaining now, or who have registered, multiple user accounts. The accounts are under different names, the profiles show different locations, occupations, and cities, but this information is false. We don't know what the actual purpose for the person(s) doing this, but I think it is for influencing discussions on board, sending PM's to other users, influencing reputation, and for stirring up trouble.

When you register on a VB forum like this the forum software records your IP address that can be resolved in fairly gory detail to pinpoint your computer location. And it records a lot of other information too - your browser type, OS, build version, log in time, date, etc. Using this information it can be seen that these "people" were created by a single user. Furthermore, it can be seen that in the reputation system that these "users" gave feedback to a very select few other forum members within a short time frame in attempts to influence feedback ratings, and, that this abuse was controlled by a single entity.

This post is to serve as a fair warning to cease and desist from this behavior on GT40s.com. We have a reputation as an inclusive, fair minded forum with a minimum of infighting. We are making it clear that the forum means to protect that reputation and will not tolerate this type of behavior.

Thank you.

Addendum - I know that some of you have had to re-register, or have re-registered, over the years with a different name etc. I am not writing about that behavior here, that has nothing to do with the observations I am making above. While we don't prefer "re-registrations" if you lose all your info, and we miss the email request when you ask for the info, what else can you do?

[John W]

Ron,
why not send them an email and tell them the spoof accounts will be closed within a certain time frame (7 days ?)

Some of us have discussed before whether certain 'people' were infact 1 & the same.

i'm glad to see your on the case, Keep up the good work

[Ron Earp]

If the situation continues the original users and the alias accounts will be deleted/banned, that is for certain.

Ron

[CliffBeer]

Hi Ron,

Interesting you post this - I recently ran a little test to try to determine if a certain member and commercial vendor on the forum was utilizing other profiles for the purpose of influencing opinion to encourage the purchase of product. Net, the suspected "alter-ego" profile of this vendor employed the same grammatical errors as the vendor, and, with a high degree of consistently included a pitch to buy the vendor's products. Seemed really weird to me and not appropriate for the forum. In connection with this I did seek a policy statement from the forum as to the acceptable limits of commercial "soft marketing" so I might have an idea of what is the consensus on this point.

Related to this I suspect, immediately after I (diplomatically) inquired about the acceptable limits of commercial marketing upon the forum by vendors, my reputation got majorly trashed. It had been very positive and increasing then immediately I was in the red. That seems weird too, particularly since I did received many private messages indicating thanks for bringing up the issue and suggesting we have some clarity on the point. Apparently there are lots of other folks on the forum who dislike the "soft marketing" that some vendors employ via this forum but don't choose to speak up publicly due to a desire to avoid conflict.

Anyway, my hope is that everyone just gets along, the commercial guys respect the reasonable limits of commercial marketing in their presence here, and we can get back to enjoying the good comraderie and spirit of a bunch of great folks who love all that is gt40.

Thanks!

[Paul Thompson 'Hooligan']

Originally Posted by CliffBeer

Hi Ron,
Anyway, my hope is that everyone just gets along, the commercial guys respect the reasonable limits of commercial marketing in their presence here, and we can get back to enjoying the good comraderie and spirit of a bunch of great folks who love all that is gt40.

Thanks!

AMEN to that!....

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

OK, It's time I fessed up.....I was also OLIVER!!!!

Yes, "multiple personalities" are an issue on many boards. And the "soft marketing" thing can really get out of hand, you don't know what is a real "attaboy" about a vendor and what is self generated fluff!

Ron does a pretty good job of keeping things here pointed in the right direction. That Jim Price of Hi-Tech posts here is proof, he doesn't post ANYWHERE!

Rick

[SteveB]

Ron

It seems to me that this kind of duplicity can only damage the the reputaton of the forum.

Publish the list when you reduce them to one name and zero the reputation, then we will all know who is who.

Steve

[Ron Earp]

In response I'd like to make a few points:

• Use of the forum is a free privilege, not a right. Abusing the privilege and ruining the experience for the rest of us will result in a ban for you, vendor or user alike. As stated in the original post, the forum means to protect the reputation of being a place with a high signal to noise ratio. If you are contributing to the noise then you will be removed.
• I have not detected any vendors with multiple accounts. It doesn't mean there aren't any, it just means if they do have multiple IDs that they were intelligent enough to do it in a way so that they cannot be easily identified.
• If a user, or users, have problems with specific vendors or users on this forum then contact me, or one of the Admins (Lynn, Al, Paul), or openly post a question about it in the Forum Help section. Do not use suggestive comments hinting at a problem without specifically identifying the problem. Admins are not privy to private communications between members, therefore we cannot identify problems without solid information.
• Do not register multiple accounts to run experiments, play games, or for any other purpose. Doing so will result in all connected IDs being banned - no exceptions.

In short, cut the BS. No baiting posts by users, no abuse by vendors. There are some vendors that post frequently to questions or in general discussions. And there are some vendors or agents that only post when they have a car to sell, advertise, or a new product to offer. And others in-between.

What is proper forum etiquette?

That is a hard call to make and the opinion will certainly depend on who you ask. In the end it'll be up to the Admins to deal with these situations on a case by case basis and do so with the input from forum members.

Be aware that we are turning back on the Unique Email Confirmation feature. This feature requires that every new user have a valid email address and respond to a confirmation email. It allows only one email address per user. I had turned it off because so many new users lost the email in spam filters and it caused additional admin loads, but I think it needs to be active and the Admins will have to deal with the workload.

Thank you.

Ron

[Gregg]

Steve, the one person I know with multiple identities is Cliff Beer, a/k/a Joe Bader. I also think he had another alias.

Cliff, You are so full of it that your eyes must be brown. Look in the mirror buddy because this post is about YOU! You claim to have run a test

"to try to determine if a certain member and commercial vendor on the forum was utilizing other profiles for the purpose of influencing opinion to encourage the purchase of product."

The fact of the matter is that you used a false id and sent me an email accusing me of being Fran Hall. Your email also had an undercurrent of intimidation. You should be advised of the following: 1. I knew it was you all along: 2. I am the wrong person to try and intimidate: 3. Although Fran is handsome in his own right, there is NOT enough makeup in Hollywood to make me look that bad 4. As far as your "test" is concerned you were attempting to determine if a "certain member" was one in the same as the "commercial vendor", and not if the "member" and "vendor" were utilizing other profiles. You claim to be a CPA, lawyer and CFO. You really show a lack of intelligence and should read your posts more thoroughly. That includes all your posts.

"Net, the suspected "alter-ego" profile of this vendor employed the same grammatical errors as the vendor, and, with a high degree of consistently included a pitch to buy the vendor's products. Seemed really weird to me and not appropriate for the forum."

I can only assume that this is once again directed to me. If so, please, do tell more. On second thought don't bother.

"In connection with this I did seek a policy statement from the forum as to the acceptable limits of commercial "soft marketing" so I might have an idea of what is the consensus on this point."

Please provide us as to your definition of "soft marketing". Is private messaging a forum member the following, soft marketing?

"Perhaps have a look at a CAV gt40. The CAV beats the RCR hands down in the terms of build quality and post-sale owner support...." Do you remember your own email? Do you remember denying it? How about being anything other than "diplomatic" regarding same and then cowering away.

"Related to this I suspect, immediately after I (diplomatically) inquired about the acceptable limits of commercial marketing upon the forum by vendors, my reputation got majorly trashed."

Wrong again Cliffo. You already had a negative reputation. In fact, you did exactly what you appear to be complaining about. I believe my post to CAV's representation that all vehicles post number 100 could accomadate a 6'6" tall person earned me some negative reputation points. All I did is ask a question as to what modifications were made from vehicle number 100 on. I further asked for a clearer picture of Lana seated in the car. I don't think it is wrong to ask a manufacturer to backup or explain its claims about their products.

"That seems weird too, particularly since I did received many private messages indicating thanks for bringing up the issue and suggesting we have some clarity on the point." Oliver used to pull the same BS. Who are these timid forum members that have elected you the second coming of Oliver? To all the timid forum members, your house and possessions will not be confiscated, you will not be imprisoned and I don't think Ron will ban you for asking a question, so please come out of hiding.

"Anyway, my hope is that everyone just gets along...."

Yes Cliff, everyone hopes that. Perhaps you should have more stregnth in your own convictions and stand behind what you say. Respect is earned that way. Otherwise your just another indivdual taliking out of both sides of your mouth.

I don't speak for RCR as I am not authorized to do so. You apparantly have issues with RCR's exposure on the forum. I am not a CPA, however, using my fingers, I counted at least 7 variants of the RCR cars. To my knowledge, CAV and the other manufacturers only have two, namely a GT40 Mark I & II. Perhaps, RCR's exposure is related to the number of products he sells.

My final remarks to you Cliff is a question. I believe you posted in the CAV 6'6" headroom post that you are 6'3" tall. Were you measured while lying on the floor, because your actions lead me to believe that you have no spine.

Thanks.

Net: It's all good.

My apologies to Ron and the rest of the forum. I have a character flaw in that I have no tolerance for people who say one thing behind your back and then deny it when confronted.

[Lynn]

It is time to state some facts about this multiple ID issue.

As you can no doubt tell from the escalating sternness of Ron's notices we, the admins, have not been sitting on our hands where this issue is concerned. As Ron has stated we are committed to maintaining a high signal to noise ratio on this forum to provide the maximum benefit to the enthusiasts for whom this forum exists. We have a reputation for a high precentage of useful information/words posted here and as a no B.S. and overall friendly place; we have and will jealously guard that repuation.

To that end, when we were advised that shadow IDs were suspected of being used to surupticiously send malicious emails and to subvert the reputation system we took it seriously. We started researching the information that is gathered by the forum software on interactions that it processes. (We are not big brother and this functionality is included to help combat quality of service attacks like those that have caused slow downs in the recent past which is usually manifested as apparent failures to save posts.) As you all surely understand, it takes quite some time to thoroughly research nearly 3500 user IDs. But, in an effort to go above and beyond in making certain that complete fairness be shown to each and every member here, we have done just that. To this point we have accused no individuals of anything because of our commitment to being fair & just in our actions and to leaving no stone unturned until we were convinced that we had the facts straight and true.

As the picture came into focus enough, we could tell that, although the numbers involved in nefarious behavior were less than .09% of the membership, it was going on! As the evidence became clearer, the intensity of the notices with respect to acceptable behavior escalated. Since Ron made the initial post on this subject, the majority of those who had multiple IDs came clean; much to their credit. No names are needed for this; they know who they are and we respect them for being men enough to own up come what may. The redundant IDs were deleted and life goes on. Unfortunately, that is not true for all, I am sad to say.

We do now know exactly who has created multiple IDs and exactly what they have done with them. We are presently deliberating on exactly how and when we will deal with this situation. My sincere suggestion is that if this includes you, that you repent immediately. I am afraid that a delay in doing so will preclude your ability to do so.

This thread will be closed shortly. It will be readable, but no further posting will be allowed. (I've got to go eat dinner now.)