I just spoke to Ron Earp, a friend of mine, and I've been following the thread on Roaring Forties turnkey delivery times. Anyone know delivery times of Superformance roller cars? Looks like Roaring Forties times are indefinite now, one year or greater, and Ron checked Tornado for me but times were over one year or about that as well. I'll check with Superformance in NC but wanted to see if anyone had first hand quotes from dealers or the South Africa facility. Looking for new complete roller cars only, just my preference.
Superformance Delivery Times
- Thread starter MikeDailey
- Start date
Gee...
I know this sounds real crazy,....but how about asking a real, genuine Superformance dealer?
For some reason, many here are real quick to bus roll SPF. Granted they are not a direct poster and not yet a sponsor, but it seems that some who have announced an intention to build some sort of "GT40" have been treated better than Superformance and yet most of what has been posted here is mere speculation!
I will admit to having an indirect connection to SPF (which is now ended) but the reception they have had here is nothing short of rude!
I have great respect for those who are trying to fulfill a dream, be the builder of a "kit" or a one-off...or those who try to make a real operation out of it, i.e Roaring Forties, CAV or any of the people who let a passion overtake the good sense God gave seafood. Geez, do you really think these people are getting rich? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
I really believe that every attempt at building a '40 only helps the greater community and sniping is only chipping away at the whole stone. Who knows which "manufacturer" will be the one to make the legal powers realize that we are not the "lunitic fringe" (what band did that song) and that only in numbers do we have a voice!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
Sorry if I ramble....
Rick
I know this sounds real crazy,....but how about asking a real, genuine Superformance dealer?
For some reason, many here are real quick to bus roll SPF. Granted they are not a direct poster and not yet a sponsor, but it seems that some who have announced an intention to build some sort of "GT40" have been treated better than Superformance and yet most of what has been posted here is mere speculation!
I will admit to having an indirect connection to SPF (which is now ended) but the reception they have had here is nothing short of rude!
I have great respect for those who are trying to fulfill a dream, be the builder of a "kit" or a one-off...or those who try to make a real operation out of it, i.e Roaring Forties, CAV or any of the people who let a passion overtake the good sense God gave seafood. Geez, do you really think these people are getting rich? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
I really believe that every attempt at building a '40 only helps the greater community and sniping is only chipping away at the whole stone. Who knows which "manufacturer" will be the one to make the legal powers realize that we are not the "lunitic fringe" (what band did that song) and that only in numbers do we have a voice!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
Sorry if I ramble....
Rick
Robert Logan
Defunct Manufactuer - Old RF Company
Rob,
I can not understand where you are getting your information regarding build times and therefore delivery dates. I think that your use of the word "indefinate" and "more than a year" are without a doubt, at the least, very misleading.
Please LOOK at my latest post regarding the delivery / shipping dates. I believe that if you were to order a car today from my company that a shipping date of August / September '06 would be expected. Please contact me directly if you would like the FACTS.
Best wishes,
Robert
I can not understand where you are getting your information regarding build times and therefore delivery dates. I think that your use of the word "indefinate" and "more than a year" are without a doubt, at the least, very misleading.
Please LOOK at my latest post regarding the delivery / shipping dates. I believe that if you were to order a car today from my company that a shipping date of August / September '06 would be expected. Please contact me directly if you would like the FACTS.
Best wishes,
Robert
From what I have seen it's not uncommon for delivery times to be extended. It's not just one manufacturer affected here. And it occurs far too frequently.
It's a complex job to complete these cars to Turnkey or even Turnkey minus stage. Especially with the high standards that are trying to be achieved.
Is it good enough? Certainly not. Is it understandable? Yes it is.
To be fair both Superformance & RF are both ramping up production of new car or new manufacturing facilities, so once things are sorted they should have a better idea of delivery times.
Which would you prefer...faster delivery or a quality product. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
It's a complex job to complete these cars to Turnkey or even Turnkey minus stage. Especially with the high standards that are trying to be achieved.
Is it good enough? Certainly not. Is it understandable? Yes it is.
To be fair both Superformance & RF are both ramping up production of new car or new manufacturing facilities, so once things are sorted they should have a better idea of delivery times.
Which would you prefer...faster delivery or a quality product. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Guys,
If waiting at all is a problem, when it comes to purchasing your dream car, turn key, kit or bags and boxes of bits, then IMHO the concept of buying a car from a small volume manufacturer isn't the best option.
I'm originally from the UK and I remember a program call "Troubleshooter" (or something similar), where Sir John Harvey Jones went to Morgan cars and told them to ramp up production as a 2-year waiting list was too long. They, quite rightly, ignored his advice and Morgan still have a waiting list as long as your arm, but have many satisfied and return customers that continue to buy Morgans of all sorts.
I'm sure Robert at Roaring Forties is doing the best he can with the resources they have available - and personally if I was in his position, I'd prefer a steady stream of orders coming in on top of a waiting list, rather than spending huge amounts of money on facilities and labour (I imagine that Victoria, like Western Australia has a shortage of skilled craft persons, which send the Wage bill through the roof) to satisfy a spike in demand and be left with whatever orders come through the door after the rush of orders is done.
I'd also like to add that the cost of a Roaring Forties GT40 replica is practically a steal in the U.S. and from what I've seen on their web-page, coupled with the very positive feedback on this and other sites, regarding the build quality and overall high standard of the kits. So is a 12 month wait, if there is a delay of that long, really a huge issue. I'd be making sure that whatever I needed to organise - painting, garage space, tool purchases etc was done in that time. And considering the cost of what is practically a 200mph supercar, a wait is nothing. Otherwise Ford has a very nice new GT at about 3 times the price.
I'm looking at getting a Roaring Forties GT40 myself, however I'm here about 2 years before I put my order in to do all the research, listen to feedback, speak to guys who own them here in Perth and have a look at their cars and possibly visit the factory on my next trip to the Eastern States of Oz before I put any money down.
Anyway, hope all is well, regards.
If waiting at all is a problem, when it comes to purchasing your dream car, turn key, kit or bags and boxes of bits, then IMHO the concept of buying a car from a small volume manufacturer isn't the best option.
I'm originally from the UK and I remember a program call "Troubleshooter" (or something similar), where Sir John Harvey Jones went to Morgan cars and told them to ramp up production as a 2-year waiting list was too long. They, quite rightly, ignored his advice and Morgan still have a waiting list as long as your arm, but have many satisfied and return customers that continue to buy Morgans of all sorts.
I'm sure Robert at Roaring Forties is doing the best he can with the resources they have available - and personally if I was in his position, I'd prefer a steady stream of orders coming in on top of a waiting list, rather than spending huge amounts of money on facilities and labour (I imagine that Victoria, like Western Australia has a shortage of skilled craft persons, which send the Wage bill through the roof) to satisfy a spike in demand and be left with whatever orders come through the door after the rush of orders is done.
I'd also like to add that the cost of a Roaring Forties GT40 replica is practically a steal in the U.S. and from what I've seen on their web-page, coupled with the very positive feedback on this and other sites, regarding the build quality and overall high standard of the kits. So is a 12 month wait, if there is a delay of that long, really a huge issue. I'd be making sure that whatever I needed to organise - painting, garage space, tool purchases etc was done in that time. And considering the cost of what is practically a 200mph supercar, a wait is nothing. Otherwise Ford has a very nice new GT at about 3 times the price.
I'm looking at getting a Roaring Forties GT40 myself, however I'm here about 2 years before I put my order in to do all the research, listen to feedback, speak to guys who own them here in Perth and have a look at their cars and possibly visit the factory on my next trip to the Eastern States of Oz before I put any money down.
Anyway, hope all is well, regards.
As a person with an order if for a SPF I can tell you this:
I put my order in April. I am #20. At the time of order they hadn't even built a car yet.
I was told that the next communication I would have regarding delivery would be when the car was started. From that time to shipment would be 100 days (estimated).
Their production scheme was to build the nine dealer cars and then produce at a rate starting at 2 cars per month and ramping to 6 per month within 6 months or so.
I was told last by my delaer to expect mine in the first qtr of 2006.
The dealers cars seem to be starting to be delivered.
The throughput is targeted at 100 days. The rate is to be ramped to 6 or more per month within a year or less. Therefore, the leadtime is dependent on the qty of orders in backlog and that come in once the dealer cars are seen. Last I heard there were some 50+ cars on order.
If mine is delivered within a year of ordering, given that they hadn't produced the demo car yet, and if they are able to maintain the high level of quality that I expect, then I will be happily amazed. Altenatively, if they need more time, I am very happy to oblige. I am only going to do this once, and I want it right.
Regards,
Mike
I put my order in April. I am #20. At the time of order they hadn't even built a car yet.
I was told that the next communication I would have regarding delivery would be when the car was started. From that time to shipment would be 100 days (estimated).
Their production scheme was to build the nine dealer cars and then produce at a rate starting at 2 cars per month and ramping to 6 per month within 6 months or so.
I was told last by my delaer to expect mine in the first qtr of 2006.
The dealers cars seem to be starting to be delivered.
The throughput is targeted at 100 days. The rate is to be ramped to 6 or more per month within a year or less. Therefore, the leadtime is dependent on the qty of orders in backlog and that come in once the dealer cars are seen. Last I heard there were some 50+ cars on order.
If mine is delivered within a year of ordering, given that they hadn't produced the demo car yet, and if they are able to maintain the high level of quality that I expect, then I will be happily amazed. Altenatively, if they need more time, I am very happy to oblige. I am only going to do this once, and I want it right.
Regards,
Mike
[ QUOTE ]
Geez, do you really think these people are getting rich? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
At the Goodwood Festival this year, I was quoted 75,000 UK sterling plus 17.5% tax, by the UK Superporformance dealer, for a Daytona Coupe turnkey. Thats roughly 120,000 US!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Forgive my boldness, but at that price I would think that someone is indeed expecting to get rich.
Geez, do you really think these people are getting rich? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
At the Goodwood Festival this year, I was quoted 75,000 UK sterling plus 17.5% tax, by the UK Superporformance dealer, for a Daytona Coupe turnkey. Thats roughly 120,000 US!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Forgive my boldness, but at that price I would think that someone is indeed expecting to get rich.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Geez, do you really think these people are getting rich? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Forgive my boldness, but at that price I would think that someone is indeed expecting to get rich.
[/ QUOTE ]
This exact issue was addressed on the ClubCobra site. Understand that the Superformance coupe sold in the UK is a TURN KEY car with a rather high line powertrain. That price does include a markup for the distributor/dealer of course, do you go to work every day free?
There are many reasons why you cannot directly compare SPF (or for that matter, Roaring Forties, CAV or any of several specialty cars) between the US and the UK.
And my point really was that Robert Logan, et all, are NOT getting rich. All it takes is a bad currency exchange rate, a rise in labor costs and these guys are watching the bank padlock the premises. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
I recently had a conversation with Jim Price from Hi-Tech and told him that if he went to a bank today with a business plan for Superformance, they would laugh and throw him out! It is only due to the passion and determination of the people who go into the manufacturing business that these cars are available to us today. My hat if off to people like Robert Logan who follow a dream, even if it leads to receivership! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Keep in mind how many of these companies have come and gone.....
Rick /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
[ QUOTE ]
Geez, do you really think these people are getting rich? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Forgive my boldness, but at that price I would think that someone is indeed expecting to get rich.
[/ QUOTE ]
This exact issue was addressed on the ClubCobra site. Understand that the Superformance coupe sold in the UK is a TURN KEY car with a rather high line powertrain. That price does include a markup for the distributor/dealer of course, do you go to work every day free?
There are many reasons why you cannot directly compare SPF (or for that matter, Roaring Forties, CAV or any of several specialty cars) between the US and the UK.
And my point really was that Robert Logan, et all, are NOT getting rich. All it takes is a bad currency exchange rate, a rise in labor costs and these guys are watching the bank padlock the premises. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
I recently had a conversation with Jim Price from Hi-Tech and told him that if he went to a bank today with a business plan for Superformance, they would laugh and throw him out! It is only due to the passion and determination of the people who go into the manufacturing business that these cars are available to us today. My hat if off to people like Robert Logan who follow a dream, even if it leads to receivership! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Keep in mind how many of these companies have come and gone.....
Rick /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
No offense intended to you Rick and I agree in the most part with your comments /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. I realise the SPF Coupe in the UK is a top line machine. No question. My original comment did say turnkey but I didn't state that the power and drive train is awesome. But lets not forget that we can all buy an extremely powerful crate motor for less than 10 grand US. At the price quoted here by the dealer, I wouldn't be surprised if he made more money than SPF? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
I also bow down in thanks to all those talented and brave people out there who supply the likes of us with our dreams. However, i doubt that any of them would start such a venture if they expected to loose money from it. As you say correctly, would any of us go to work every day for free.
I cannot for the life of me understand why there should be such a difference in price between cars offered in the US Vs the UK. Some different level of taxation certainly, but on a like for like spec basis, I find 75 thousand pounds to be a little extreme. A UK guy could save thousands in this example if he bought from the US and shipped it onto the UK and payed taxes at both ends (which I don't think he would actually have to do?). Did you know that although I live less than 40 miles from the Jaguar factory, I can buy a Jag from the US and ship it home in time for Tea and Biscuits and still save money over buying it here? Buit that is a totally different story to the supply of cars such as our beloved 40's etc.
I also did not wish to slate the SPF product or ethos. Simply to suggest that any manufacturer is unlikely to do this for the love and only the love. But fair is fair in the end, manufacturers pitch their products at their prices, if enough people are writing cheques then it must be a fair price?
As to the number of failed manufacturers that have gone bump, who can truly say why they went bump? I doubt it was always down to the price of their product alone? Not all passionate and talented genius' are businessmen. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
I'm waffling now. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
I also bow down in thanks to all those talented and brave people out there who supply the likes of us with our dreams. However, i doubt that any of them would start such a venture if they expected to loose money from it. As you say correctly, would any of us go to work every day for free.
I cannot for the life of me understand why there should be such a difference in price between cars offered in the US Vs the UK. Some different level of taxation certainly, but on a like for like spec basis, I find 75 thousand pounds to be a little extreme. A UK guy could save thousands in this example if he bought from the US and shipped it onto the UK and payed taxes at both ends (which I don't think he would actually have to do?). Did you know that although I live less than 40 miles from the Jaguar factory, I can buy a Jag from the US and ship it home in time for Tea and Biscuits and still save money over buying it here? Buit that is a totally different story to the supply of cars such as our beloved 40's etc.
I also did not wish to slate the SPF product or ethos. Simply to suggest that any manufacturer is unlikely to do this for the love and only the love. But fair is fair in the end, manufacturers pitch their products at their prices, if enough people are writing cheques then it must be a fair price?
As to the number of failed manufacturers that have gone bump, who can truly say why they went bump? I doubt it was always down to the price of their product alone? Not all passionate and talented genius' are businessmen. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
I'm waffling now. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
EXACTLY!!!!!!
Most often, people who go into this business are NOT businessmen! They do it for the dream. When they close their eyes, they see the much vaunted "DeLuxe Smythe Mark III", not the pile of unpaid vendors on the desk.
This is the real downfall of the specialty car world. There are some survivors, Lotus, Noble, Marcos (23rd version) and others.....but there are more casualties, DeLorean, Unipower, Jensen and the "revival" builders, i.e. Lea Francis, Jensen, Invicta, Bugatti (pre-VW) et.all.
It takes a BIG pair to step up and play in this league! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Rick...(a veteran of the wannbee auto manufacturers, ask me for the entire list I have been involved with!)
Most often, people who go into this business are NOT businessmen! They do it for the dream. When they close their eyes, they see the much vaunted "DeLuxe Smythe Mark III", not the pile of unpaid vendors on the desk.
This is the real downfall of the specialty car world. There are some survivors, Lotus, Noble, Marcos (23rd version) and others.....but there are more casualties, DeLorean, Unipower, Jensen and the "revival" builders, i.e. Lea Francis, Jensen, Invicta, Bugatti (pre-VW) et.all.
It takes a BIG pair to step up and play in this league! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Rick...(a veteran of the wannbee auto manufacturers, ask me for the entire list I have been involved with!)
Robert Logan
Defunct Manufactuer - Old RF Company
Craig,
Many thanks for the kind words and the support.
Regarding business and businessmen in this industry, I COMPLETELY concur with your observation but it is, as you rightly say, not all of them. The cottage industry of motor car manufacturers has been littered with stories of companies hitting the wall. The kit car industry is even more profilic with these stories but the main players survive because of good governance. The major problem is that the majority of these small companies are just that, too small. They can not offer the R&D facilities that the industry and our customers demands today of their cars. The dreamers are the guys that were part of the industry and decide that they can do ALL the things their bosses do and open a new company. The welders, the fiberglassers and the other members of a team go out on their own and this spells disaster. These skills are very important as part of a team but so is the TRUE engineering skills of correct suspension design, good breaking design and so on, coupled with real business acurman that will allow a new business at least a chance of sucess.
Good planing is required to start a business, commonsence and diligance is required to maintain that business and customer service and product quality is also required to grow the business.
At this point I would like to thank the many "mentors" that I have that help me on a daily basis to ensure that my business grows and is kept on the right track. I have many such mentors but three of particular note are Richard Bendell of MoTeC, Norman Faulkner and John Bosci. I thank you all for all the advice, some harder to take than others but all given with help in mind.
People say you need luck. I agree but luck is a function of hard work also. I have herd often, ' the harder I work the luckier I become'. I think that there is a lot of truth in this statement.
I seem to have hijacked this thread away from the intended point regarding Superformance delivery dates. I can not comment on these dates so I will sign off.
Best wishes,
Robert
Many thanks for the kind words and the support.
Regarding business and businessmen in this industry, I COMPLETELY concur with your observation but it is, as you rightly say, not all of them. The cottage industry of motor car manufacturers has been littered with stories of companies hitting the wall. The kit car industry is even more profilic with these stories but the main players survive because of good governance. The major problem is that the majority of these small companies are just that, too small. They can not offer the R&D facilities that the industry and our customers demands today of their cars. The dreamers are the guys that were part of the industry and decide that they can do ALL the things their bosses do and open a new company. The welders, the fiberglassers and the other members of a team go out on their own and this spells disaster. These skills are very important as part of a team but so is the TRUE engineering skills of correct suspension design, good breaking design and so on, coupled with real business acurman that will allow a new business at least a chance of sucess.
Good planing is required to start a business, commonsence and diligance is required to maintain that business and customer service and product quality is also required to grow the business.
At this point I would like to thank the many "mentors" that I have that help me on a daily basis to ensure that my business grows and is kept on the right track. I have many such mentors but three of particular note are Richard Bendell of MoTeC, Norman Faulkner and John Bosci. I thank you all for all the advice, some harder to take than others but all given with help in mind.
People say you need luck. I agree but luck is a function of hard work also. I have herd often, ' the harder I work the luckier I become'. I think that there is a lot of truth in this statement.
I seem to have hijacked this thread away from the intended point regarding Superformance delivery dates. I can not comment on these dates so I will sign off.
Best wishes,
Robert
If we're back "on thread" I'll just chime in with Mike. My Superformance is #23 and I have been getting the same feedback as Mike. The demo cars are taking 6 weeks to two months longer to get to the dealers, but production is building. Considering the complexity of these cars I think it's understandable. To their credit, Superformance has never made any promises concerning delivery dates and has always been very forthcoming about their progress. If Superformance is not issuing weekly status reports it's because they are busy constructing cars. I'm confident that the product will be worth the wait. We'll know things are heating up when we are asked to come up with the next $25K installment.
