Need some history on SPF MK II P 2176

Bob Lemke aka deckofficer · 25th June 2011, 07:27 PM

I can not find any history on this Superformance MK II P-2176 (I think, photo was blurred). It is on a Salvage Title. Running a Keith Craft 427 sbf, paddle shifted, and twin turbo by DallasPerformance. System design is so good that with only 18 PSI boost on 93 octane, managed 1059.3 rwhp. It has minor skin damage around front left wheel opening and a 2" piece of glass missing around the latch on that side. Also as reported from current owner (who is just turning cars from insurance buys), it wobbles. He thinks the wheel is bent, by looking at the photos, the wheel did hit something. Also it is my understanding that Superformance cars can be registered in California under the year of the original, i.e. 1966 instead of the build year of 2009. Any help with the history of this car and problems I might encounter reg in California from a salvage title would be of major help.

Thanks guys alot,

Bob

The Baron · 25th June 2011, 07:43 PM

There is another thread detailing the history of this car. Apparently, the chassis is twisted and being a mono may not be able to be repaired.

I'm sure others will chime in again but I believe the consensus would be: Don't get involved with this car unless it is very very cheap.

Bob Lemke aka deckofficer · 25th June 2011, 07:59 PM

Thank you sailor, it is folks like you and forums like this that keep people like me from making a big mistake.

I'm not having any luck finding the thread here on GT40s. I've tried P 2176, MK II Dallas Performance, any chance someone can steer me to it?

Never mind, found it in Totaled SPF GT40 Replica Ebay - Parts/Spares thanks for steering me clear of this one.

Jim Craik · 25th June 2011, 09:25 PM

Deckofficer,

No way can you register this car in California as a 1966. You can register it under SB100. You can use the sb100 rules that allows you to meet 1966 regs, but it would be registered as a 2007, its not hard to do.

I'd be real careful with P2176, it obviously has more than cosmetic problems. Additionally, that motor may be a lot more motor than you want/need. If you make it down to the bay area, I'll show you P2264, small block, 450 hp, very nice to drive, more hp than anyone needs

Alan Watkins · 25th June 2011, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deckofficer

it wobbles.

Yeah, I bet it does... LOL.

Somebody really ought to tell that guy the story, in a discoverable form, so that he doesn't keep spouting that gibberish. Or at least suffers the consequences if he does. Hmmm. Maybe I will.

Bob Lemke aka deckofficer · 25th June 2011, 11:16 PM

Jim,

Thanks for the generous offer, a little too busy till after vacation. On the output of the motor being more than I need, well I'm looking for more than I have now with doors, heat, and AC. My 2nd to last engine in the Track-T had me at 4.2 lbs per hp. In a 2550 lb GT 40, that would equate to 620 hp. My current torque motor (gave up 120 hp on the high end to get 516 lb/ft down at 2800) has be down to 5.7 lb per hp, equal to around 450 hp in a GT 40. I love the street manners of the current engine but really miss the zing above 5000.

Alan,

I don't know if you referring to me, but rest assured I would not buy any "speciality" car without doing due diligence in the research of said car. The seller of this car is going to find out the hard way that any legitimate buyer of this type of car will research it first. Thanks to this forum, my discovery was quick and painless.

Alan Watkins · 26th June 2011, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deckofficer

I don't know if you referring to me,....

No, others have reported the same "oh it just has some minor issues" presentation. There are probably potential buyers out there than aren't connected to this community. I would just want to make sure the seller can't truthfully claim ignorance.

Bob Lemke aka deckofficer · 26th June 2011, 02:00 AM

Alan,

Since it is so close, I will take a look at it and give him a 2nd chance on the phone before I head down to properly explain the salvage title. I have never bought from an insurance company on a car they paid off, but I'm sure the reasons are made clear to the buyer. That would mean Alex is trying to pull a fast one. What this seller doesn't realize, is by buying this type of salvage car, his only potential customers will be true enthuisists who will do the research, and drug dealers looking for a good buy on the type of car they lust after. Problem for the seller with the latter customer, is he could find himself on the wrong side of flying lead when the disgruntled buyer finds out he has been had.

Rich E. · 26th June 2011, 12:36 PM

I think it's best to look at 2176 as a "parts car" only. Although it would be interesting to find out how much Superformance wants for a new tub

Alan Watkins · 26th June 2011, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deckofficer

Alan,

Since it is so close, I will take a look at it and give him a 2nd chance on the phone before I head down to properly explain the salvage title. ... he could find himself on the wrong side of flying lead when the disgruntled buyer finds out he has been had.

Cool! If you can take some pictures of the tub where the suspension links bolt I'd love to see them.

Other outcomes I can imagine are death/injury to innocent bystanders/passengers, followed by lawsuits from the disgruntled buyer's family/estate.

Kurt Kliber · 10th May 2012, 11:54 PM

The car is fine . The frame is not twisted some outside damage . Which is fixed with little time and paint. Motor is great . Wiring and some little things needed to be redone . Superformance looked at the car in Scottsdale Az. And wondered why would they total this car. The car is back on the road and love it.

Rick Muck- Mark IV · 11th May 2012, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurt 280mph

The car is fine . The frame is not twisted some outside damage . Which is fixed with little time and paint. Motor is great . Wiring and some little things needed to be redone . Superformance looked at the car in Scottsdale Az. And wondered why would they total this car. The car is back on the road and love it.

Was that a "first post" bomb? I would question that an insurance company would write-off a car as expensive the GT40 with only "needing some time and paint"????

Mike · 11th May 2012, 08:38 AM

This is the car with two big turbos and a heavy Ricardo transaxle hanging off the back? I'm sure it is very fast but probably quite ill mannered.

Kirby Schrader · 11th May 2012, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MHNCO

This is the car with two big turbos and a heavy Ricardo transaxle hanging off the back? I'm sure it is very fast but probably quite ill mannered.

I will repeat what I have said before in 'short form'.

1) I knew the guy who bought this car originally. He rode in my MkII and said... I need one of these! But his goal was to have 1000HP. He got it in spades. He brought it by my house one night to look at it. It was late, so I didn't drive it. They had major problems dynoing the car. It wouldn't stick to the dyno rollers. It made something like 1183HP (going by memory here, so I could be off a few HP). The owner told me if he got on the throttle hard in second gear, the chassis would twist so much the passenger door would come open. It's a Keith Craft 427 engine, by the way. Don't know the engine details.
2) The car has a lot of major modifications done to it. The Ricardo did not fit, so the back end of the car was modified accordingly. You can see that the rear clip frame is modified as is the back part of the car.
3) The engine and transmission had to be mounted higher than normal so the Ricardo cleared.
4) The Ricardo and the turbos and the intercoolers and the piping, etc. all add a LOT of weight to the rear of the car. It took both of us (we both weigh over 200lbs) pulling on my quick jack to get the back end of the car off the ground. I thought the jack arms were going to break... By the way, did I mention that this car is HEAVY at the back?
5) The previous owner told me the reason the insurance company totaled it was because the monocoque was tweaked on the left rear corner and the right front. It was January in Dallas and he hit some ice. The car spun and both ends were hit when he went offroading. Nobody was hurt. The police told him he was lucky.
I have not seen the car since the accident, but that's what the owner told me. The decision by the insurance company was apparently made after pursuing the option of replacing the monocoque with a new one.
6) It has all kinds of other stuff on it. Electric mirrors, iPod docking station and fancy stereo system, GPS (screen retracts into the dash when not in use), leather seats which were modified to the owner's taste, all new gauges, paddle shift, an ice cannister to assist the intercoolers, those nice blue headlights that everyone seems to like these days, etc. etc. etc.

I honestly think the original owner was kinda' glad to see it go. It was WAY more expensive than he thought it would be to do all that custom work and when it was finished, I believe he was a little disappointed with all the little 'features' of the car that it ended up having. Doors opening when you didn't want them to, lack of traction, weight in the back made it handle poorly, etc. etc. In other words, even more impractical than a 'normal' GT40.

Just passing on what I know. In its current state, I'm sure it will drive down the road. Would I buy it? Not really, knowing what I know.
For parts, maybe.... but not at the price they were asking for.
If you wanted to do it right, a new chassis would be the first thing I'd look into. The engine would be detuned or the chassis would have to be strengthened. If you wanted it to handle decently, the Ricardo's extra weight would have to go. You'd want to lower the engine and transaxle back down.
Why spend all that money unless you just want to make it a show queen. I drive my cars....

Well, just my opinion....

FWIW,
Kirby

Cliff Beer · 11th May 2012, 06:28 PM

There's only one reason why the seller would be an insurance company: an evaluation was done, and the estimated cost to repair exceeded the total value of the car. Plain and simple.

In other words, it was a total write off, hence the salvage title.

If there's a twisted chassis under all those turbos and piping and such then it'll be a very expensive process to straighten it out. And then you still have a car with a salvage title.....

It needs to be very, very cheap to be worth it. Probably not much more than the value of just the Ricardo and the engine as parts. Harsh but true.

Kurt Kliber · 27th May 2012, 09:42 AM

Yes the car is very fast!! Fun to drive had to change some shift points but need to get it on the track . Looks like grove creek track is open. A lot to get ready before oct.

Jim Rosenthal · 27th May 2012, 10:37 PM

Fair enough. Post a drive report and let us know how it handled.

Or ask your estate to post it. The car looks not only fast, but lethal.

GT40GoldParts.com · 28th May 2012, 03:08 AM

Jim et al,

Me ponders whether this so called owner, is posting on here to counter any negative press.
So when it comes to a sell on ........

The Baron · 28th May 2012, 04:20 AM

That would have been my guess too. Why are Brits so cynical?

Apologies if this is wrong and it actually is a well mannered well thought out completely undamaged (apart from cosmetics) insurance salvage replica GT40 with impeccable road manners and poor shift points what ever that means.

Rick Muck- Mark IV · 28th May 2012, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Farley

Jim et al,

Me ponders whether this so called owner, is posting on here to counter any negative press.
So when it comes to a sell on ........

So the SPF tubs are "self-repairing"? I must remember to mention this when selling them from now on. I also want the name of the insurance company so that if I do some "cosmetic damage" they will write off the car.