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Old 12-31-03, 01:16 PM   1 links from elsewhere to this Post. Click to view. #1 (permalink)
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Mark Worthington
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Which one is the better input shaft?

The picture posted below is of two different Audi 01E input shafts. The pictures came from Charlie Smith's 01E web page. The input shaft at the top of the picture is referred to as the "standard" shaft configuration, and the lower piece is referred to as the "necked down" shaft. Charlie Smith explains the differences between the input shafts as follows:

[ QUOTE ]
have recently found that the higher torque engine applications had a necked down mainshaft that would flex a little bit, thus keeping sudden torque impacts from loading the gear surfaces quite as much. Here are pictures of both types of mainshafts . Please note that the description "flexible 1st" is talking about the necked down versions of the mainshaft, which would permit a bit of "wind up" upon sudden torque load. Thus this main shaft was acting like a torsion bar spring in a suspension.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with his analysis. It appears to me that the necked-down input shaft was not designed to twist under torsion so much as it was designed to reduce stress raisers. Having devoured Carroll Smith's Engineer To Win a few times, I would say that the ultimate strength of the input shaft (metallurgical differences aside) is determined by the root diameter of the splines, and that the abrupt diameter increase just to the right of the splines and again a couple inches to the right are classic stress raisers. Accordingly, I would say that the input shaft at the bottom of the picture is stronger even though it is smaller and probably lighter.

My question to those who are more experienced in mechanical engineering is, "how much better?" Is my analysis off the mark? Any feedback is appreciated.

BTW, the reason I ask is that I am considering buying a used 01E transaxle that uses the standard shaft. I expect the price to be good, but I wonder if I should hold off for a box with the improved input shaft.
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Old 12-31-03, 01:38 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Which one is the better input shaft?

Oops...this was meant to be posted in the engines and transaxles forum...can somebody move it there please?
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Old 12-31-03, 08:47 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Which one is the better input shaft?

I would tend to agree with your assesment. Have you looked at the relative dimensions such that you know the root diameter versus the necked diameter?

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Old 01-01-04, 11:56 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Which one is the better input shaft?

Mark,

I would be concerned about that narrow 18mm first gear. The widened (25mm)first gear along with the input shaft neck-down was implemented to cure some obvious problems. Shock loading will tear up transmissions. Necking down the shaft will help reduce the shock loading due to torsional yield.

Splines are stress risers, so it depends a lot on how the shaft design adjacent to the spline manages this issue (The 01E uses a 15/16" 23 spline, same as the 016). I suspect there was a lot of engineering effort and subsequent testing put into the design change from the old style to the new.

May I ask what "a good price" for this old trans is? Do you know the mileage/condition/rebuild history, etc?

Andy
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Old 01-02-04, 08:04 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Which one is the better input shaft?

Andy,

I guess a good price is what the market will pay. I was unfortunately outbid on this 01E DPV (I think) transmission on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ory=56445&rd=1

The price of that box hovered around 200 Euros for quite a while but the bidding got exciting in the end. It is out of a 1999 A6 and had 60,000 km on it. It did have the wide first gear but had the old-style mainshaft.
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Old 01-02-04, 09:52 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Which one is the better input shaft?

Boy , I wish I would have taken German,,, I wonder how plentiful these boxes are over there. I'm planning on a 350-375hp engine in my 40 for starters. I bet one of these would live all right behind it as long as I didnt abuse it (especially 1st gear). Regards, Dan
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