Why was the 917 so revolutionary? - Page 3

Evan · 27th July 2008, 12:03 AM

The Porsche 909 was just a concept in which the 908/3 was born. It was suppose to be the Targa Florio and the Nurburgring killer. But they developed one of my favorite prototypes ever. The Porsche 908/3. What made the Porsche 917K so special was that it did win Porsche's first LeMans win. It truly put Porsche on the map of Sports Car Racing. It proved that they had what it takes. The 917 dominated everything through-out the early 70's to the mid-70's. They basically killed Can-Am racing. They made it boring in some sense. A 917K could do 220 down the mulsanne. A 917LH (Langheck) could reach a cool 245mph, it too raced in 1970. So if you were to put a McLaren M8B down the mulsanne at first it would be ahead but later i think the Porsche would just take over. Mainly though, what made the car so special was the brilliance of Porsche. How they could make a 12-cylinder air cooled engine produce 600bhp. It was named the "widow maker" for pete sake. This car was truly amazing.

Marcus · 27th July 2008, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SL70/34

It was named the "widow maker" for pete sake. This car was truly amazing.

...another nick name was "the ulcer".

Best,

Marcus

91740Gt · 11th August 2008, 09:35 AM

Well, following on from the posts regarding accepting the risks i,ve just survived this one.

With such an open frame at least they are easy to repair .

Graham @ GTA.

Pete K. · 11th August 2008, 12:11 PM

Bummer! The damage doesn't look that bad (lots of fiberglass work needed). What happened?

91740Gt · 11th August 2008, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petek

Bummer! The damage doesn't look that bad (lots of fiberglass work needed). What happened?

Petek,

One new oil cooler, new tubular front support pontoon, New air ducting, three master cylinders, lights, a new nose section and bonnet, numerous small items,etc, etc.

All in stock thankfully. When you go racing you always need backup for the "small mishaps".

I was lucky with this one. In the wet,oil on track, changing up from 2nd to 3rd back-end went literally quicker than you could clap your hands. And all on the big screen !!
Lots of people saw it happen including Derek Bell, Brian Redman,David Piper and Willie Green who said that the same had happened to him in an F40 in Germany. David knew i was OK for spares as he had supplied me with new nose sections from 010 which he still owns and we once again discussed doing a removable front end for easier access as he has done. Still not sure about that and i,ll decide for certain next week when i start repairing her.

GT.

I,ll try not to do it too often !!

Kev Farrington · 11th August 2008, 04:05 PM

Hello Graham,
I was looking forward to seeing your car in action and having a look at it in the paddock but it wasnt to be. I was watching the action on the straight past the first bridge. When I went into the paddock later I couldnt see you anywhere so I assumed you`d put it away out of sight. Like many 40 owners I`ve always fancied a 917 and would have liked to look into the possibility a little. Anyway I`m pleased to see the damage isnt as bad as it could have been, maybe I`ll get a chance to see it again somewhere. If you get up to Oulton Park anytime I`ll try to get down.
Cheers, Kev Farrington

91740Gt · 11th August 2008, 05:23 PM

Kev,

WE MOST CERTAINLY DID NOT PUT THE CAR AWAY. It was there for all to see.

We had a Gulf related marquee just by the H@H auction stand by the paddock where the 917 could be seen fully, damage and all. You could have have gone away with a few Gulf items if you had looked in.

We had hundreds of 40 and 917 enthusiasts throughout the 3 days, as well as many 40 owners calling in for advice or a chat, and it was particularly good that Alan and Nick called in as they had mailed me before the event following the "sub £10,000 GT40 build" topic that has been running recently.
Couple more pictures that were taken of the paddock marquee and Brian calling in again on Sunday to tell me of his spin in the Sunbeam.

GT.

John S · 11th August 2008, 05:30 PM

Very sorry to see this and only good you came out okay yourself. That must have been a scary experience realising the position of your feet while sliding off...

John

Kev Farrington · 11th August 2008, 05:43 PM

Hi Graham,
I cant believe I missed you, although I only went into the paddock on Saturday and spent much of the time dodging showers. I should have tried again on Sunday. See you another time then, Cheers, Kev

91740Gt · 12th August 2008, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John S

Very sorry to see this and only good you came out okay yourself. That must have been a scary experience realising the position of your feet while sliding off...

John

John,

Thankyou for concern. It was not scary at all. Racing accidents like this one happen so quickly that it is over almost before it has started ! We did not slide off. The back end broke away in an instant and we went in nose first off the track which was not much wider than the car. As i said in a previous post on this topic you must accept that these cars are vunerable and you accept the risk if you want to run them. It does not worry me at all.

I always said that a GT40 was like a comfortable sofa compared to a 917 but i would sooner repair a 917 than a 40. They are so much easier to work on but no where near as strong.

Regards,

Graham.

Jean-Paul Reckinger · 12th August 2008, 08:56 AM

Hi Graham,even damaged it's the car everybody want's to drive and own
hope you didn't get injured

91740Gt · 13th August 2008, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabbath

Hi Graham,even damaged it's the car everybody want's to drive and own
hope you didn't get injured

Jean-Paul,

I was very fortunate this time. My feet are in there somewhere and i did not get a scratch or mark. This shot was taken with the "bits" laid in the open front end before towing back to the paddock otherwise you would clearly see my race boots!!
Sadly, i shall not now make the Snetterton meeting or the Spa endurance race next month unless i have the luck of the Gods and a tail wind behind me.

Regards,

Graham.

Phil · 11th September 2008, 07:32 PM

I'm sure I read somewhere that in the mid 70's the winning 917 travelled what is still the most amount of k's done in a Le Mans 24's? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Phil

Scott · 11th September 2008, 10:19 PM

For mine, the 917's mystique is that it was the Porsche built specifically to chase the marques first outright win at La Sarthe; it's generally mentioned that its design was evolutionary rather than revolutionary, but the successes of the 917K in the early 70's cemented it as epitomising that era of sports car racing.

The original design was an aerodynamic drama: "der compooder" said 9"-wide tyres gave the best drag/grip solution, but as Frank Gardner summed it up in not so many words: der compooder didn't have to try and keep it on the black stuff at The Green Hell! I'm sure that I've read somewhere that the moving tail flaps were quite effective, but the rulemakers ordered them fixed... which made it that much more difficult to drive. Of course it wasn't the only issue with them, at least initially... in the 1969 car, FG says they had a gauge on the top of the dash, with a pressure reading (apparently the frame was pressurised), and the engineers told him if it should ever fall to zero - ie the frame cracked - he should drive it slowly back to the pits... to which Gardner replied, no, he would park it immediately and walk back thank you very much.

Frank Gardner has been infinitely quotable on his experiences with 917 from 1969, ake on the thing in 1969 is a real scream (Frank can use a bit of poetic licence when telling a tale by many accounts)... reckoned that the frame flexed so much that if you'd reach for the gear lever as you exited a corner, and it wouldn't be in the same place you left it... at the Nurburgring in 1969, David Piper brought the car in early, told Frank he was too young to die, and left him to it... Frank said that day he drove with levels of concentration that he never knew he possessed; in a private ceremony at the factory the following week, they presented the two drivers with the Iron Cross...

The 917 laid the cornerstone for the Porsche sports car domination of the 70's and early 80's, spawning worthy successors such as the 936, 956 and 962, and while technically it probably wasn't quite Car Of the Millenium, the 917 shape,story and mystique is sufficiently emotive that it will alway gather afficionados.

Timbo · 1st October 2008, 12:09 PM

The main problem with the early 917 was the aerodynamics. The guys at Porsche put 100% of their effort into reducing drag (very effectively), unfortunately they didn't spot the fact that this caused lift resulting in a very 'hairy' car to drive. They tried to counteract this with various spoilers which helped slightly. When Gulf and John Wyer got the car (for the 1970 season) they did some test work which resulted in the cut off tail 'K' car we all love. This new tail completely changed the handling of the car and made it into a very driveable but incredibly powerful racecar.
To say it was called the 'widow-maker' I don't think is true---John Woolfe was the only person to be killed in a 917 and he was seriously out of his depth in the early 69 version.

Fran Hall RCR · 1st October 2008, 12:20 PM

Tim,

having reviewed the original suspension geometry..

I am not in complete agreement about the Aero packaging being the total reason behind the flighty feel of the cars on their original release...although the "K" version did improve the balance significantly...

The geometry was later tweaked but not fully optimised until quality race teams got their hands on the cars....and contiinued the development....Wyer/Penske etc

Allan Feldman · 1st October 2008, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Listek

I'm sure I read somewhere that in the mid 70's the winning 917 travelled what is still the most amount of k's done in a Le Mans 24's? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Phil

True Phil The 1971 Le Mans winning Porsche 917K of Marko and Van Lennep covered the greatest distance of 3315.203miles (5335,313km) at 138.133mph (222,304kph). But the Le Mans circuit has changed many times since. The 1988 Jaguar XJR9LM of Lammers/Dumfries/Wallace that won raced on a longer circuit. And they acheived nearly the same Distance 5332,790km at an average of 221.665 kph. In the same race the WM Peugeot (Dorchy) acheived 405kph (251mph) along the mulsanne straight pre chicanes.
Regards Allan

Timbo · 1st October 2008, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gt40fran

Tim,

having reviewed the original suspension geometry..

I am not in complete agreement about the Aero packaging being the total reason behind the flighty feel of the cars on their original release...although the "K" version did improve the balance significantly...

The geometry was later tweaked but not fully optimised until quality race teams got their hands on the cars....and contiinued the development....Wyer/Penske etc

I won't argue with that, but aero was the 'major' problem at the start.
PS. How you doin? I was at GT's when you were there a couple of years ago.

Timbo · 7th October 2008, 03:02 PM

I've just watched Graham's accident on Motors TV (Cholmondeley Pageant of Power)
the car snapped sideways with no warning at all---fortunately at relatively low speed.
Glad GT is OK.

Gabriel Von Wahl · 14th March 2012, 02:57 PM

Just to bring this one back up as its soooo worth talking about...

The killer thing about the 917 is that it was faster than F1 cars of the time and set records that took formula cars 12 years to break...

Drivers were expendable...victory at all costs. IMHO its something we need to get back to as a society. Obviously safety is important but the drive to win, the honor, balls and bravado required...it made us different men.