Mongoose Motorsports 63 GS

[Maxwell]

Sorry if this is old news, I was living abroad in Europe and while in Germany I saw the Monogoose 63 GS Vette. A great replica with impressive performance.

I resently returned from overseas and a friend told me that he thought that they were being sued by GM. :huh:

Is this true? :lipsrsealed:

Max

 

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

Yes,

It is true. Mongoose is being sued by General Motors for trademark infringenment as I understand.

GM is rightfully protective of their IP and trademarks. Plus, they have licensed the Grand Sport via Duntov Motors to Superformance. They are the only authorized manufacturer to build and use the trade dress and name "Grand Sport Corvette".

While I don't like to see a small company targeted by a large corporation, you can't use the IP of someone else without compensation or authorization. Look at what has happened to those who replicated a Ferrari.................

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Its interesting that prior to the "licensed" deal GM actually used Mongoose and D & D cars in their own displays and advertisements.....

 

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

Its interesting that prior to the "licensed" deal GM actually used Mongoose and D & D cars in their own displays and advertisements.....

As did Ford at SEMA, using a Superformance in their display just prior to fileing suit against them!

Big business makes strange bedfellows! But both Ford and Shelby "Made Nice" with SPF. The issue is that if a trademark holder does not take action to protect said trademark, it is seen as "abandonment" and the mark can be lost. So even tho' a copy may be doing your barand good, you must go after it to protect the trademark/trade dress. Gotta love the legal system!

 

[matthew]

Its interesting that prior to the "licensed" deal GM actually used Mongoose and D & D cars in their own displays and advertisements.....

As did Ford at SEMA, using a Superformance in their display just prior to fileing suit against them!

Big business makes strange bedfellows! But both Ford and Shelby "Made Nice" with SPF. The issue is that if a trademark holder does not take action to protect said trademark, it is seen as "abandonment" and the mark can be lost. So even tho' a copy may be doing your barand good, you must go after it to protect the trademark/trade dress. Gotta love the legal system!

I think it is even more interesting that shortly after Superformance announced that they would be making one.

Smells like the same business that happened when the first lawsuit happened with FFR.

Seems to me that Superformance is one of the “big business[es]”

 

[Miguel]

Good points Matthew

 

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

I think it is even more interesting that shortly after Superformance announced that they would be making one.

Smells like the same business that happened when the first lawsuit happened with FFR.

Seems to me that Superformance is one of the “big business[es]”

"Big business"??? Yes, in the specialist car industry, in the real car industry? Not even a blip on the map.

GM going after Mongoose, etc. is not due to Superformance. Understand that the Grand Sport license is held by Duntov Motors and Superformance is just the manufacturing/distribution sub license holder. In other words Duntov is the entity that holds the license with GM and Superformance is the "hard parts" supplier.

GM had already, I understand, warned several companies well prior to the Superformance Grand Sport announcement. GM as well as Ford, etc. have legal representation who watch the specialty industry looking for trademark/IP infringement. Sure they are looking for royalties and income, but the trademark protection and possible abandonment result is the real driver here.

I hate to see a small company like Mongoose having to defend itself against GM but they knew they were on shakey ground using the name "Grand Sport" on their kits.

I used to hold a license form Ford to maunfacture restoration parts and use Ford trademarks, logos and even had Ford supply the original blueprints to me. My parts had to be inspected for quality and I had to carry product liability insurance that named Ford as additional insured! There are some real horror stories of companies like Ford and GM being sued for products they did not make nor were even aware of because their trademark or IP was on the product. Sort of like you having to pay for your next door neighbors wife's auto accident that you had nothing to do with.....

 

[Ian Anderson]

I presume they coulld change that to "Grands Port" - 2 completely different words! :laugh: :laugh:

Ian

 

[Maxwell]

Thanks guys for clearing that up. SPF offering the GS makes no sense to me. Cobras, GT40s, CShelby distributing and then GS Vette ?

The Mongoose that I tested in Germany was a blast and really well done, I hope Mongoose and GM find a solution. Its good to have choices.

Max

 

[matthew]

"Big business"??? Yes, in the specialist car industry, in the real car industry? Not even a blip on the map.

GM going after Mongoose, etc. is not due to Superformance. Understand that the Grand Sport license is held by Duntov Motors and Superformance is just the manufacturing/distribution sub license holder. In other words Duntov is the entity that holds the license with GM and Superformance is the "hard parts" supplier.

GM had already, I understand, warned several companies well prior to the Superformance Grand Sport announcement. GM as well as Ford, etc. have legal representation who watch the specialty industry looking for trademark/IP infringement. Sure they are looking for royalties and income, but the trademark protection and possible abandonment result is the real driver here.

I hate to see a small company like Mongoose having to defend itself against GM but they knew they were on shakey ground using the name "Grand Sport" on their kits.

I used to hold a license form Ford to maunfacture restoration parts and use Ford trademarks, logos and even had Ford supply the original blueprints to me. My parts had to be inspected for quality and I had to carry product liability insurance that named Ford as additional insured! There are some real horror stories of companies like Ford and GM being sued for products they did not make nor were even aware of because their trademark or IP was on the product. Sort of like you having to pay for your next door neighbors wife's auto accident that you had nothing to do with.....

Of course not compared to Toyota, Ford, GM ….if they were they would have to meet the same safety standards and a different type of company :wiseguy:

I get what you are saying…the licensing for Superformance might not be directly through GM as stated but you really don’t think there is a connection. Just like Shelby suing Superformance and FFR, years ago, the first lawsuit, not Ford or AC suing. I am sure Superformance has good business sense because (of course they probably can afford to with less of an overhead cost) Superformance worked out a deal with Shelby and now it is big businesses for both Shelby and Superformance. I am just saying it seems like a similar situations.

If not, like you said Ford and GM have people that watch the specialty companies. Mongoose has been in business for some time, why all of a sudden is GM suing them? Has the quality all of a sudden gone down and GM is worried about representation? Is it just because of using the name “Grand Sport”?

No connection with either Mongoose or FFR, just want to make sure RCR doesn’t get sued all of sudden by the time I have the money to get one rockonsmile

 

[Ian K]

GM had already, I understand, warned several companies well prior to the Superformance Grand Sport announcement. GM as well as Ford, etc. have legal representation who watch the specialty industry looking for trademark/IP infringement. Sure they are looking for royalties and income, but the trademark protection and possible abandonment result is the real driver here.

IIRC, this is why ERA abandoned their Grand Sport project.

The big difference between GM going after Mongoose (as they have gone after others in the past) vs. Ford not going after and CS going after companies that make Cobra replicas is, form what I understand, the trademark and abandonment issue.

Ford and Shelby did not protect the Cobra shape at all - look at the number of Cobra replicas that sprouted up since the 70's. Same can be said of the GT40 - no effort was made to stop either Cobra or GT40 replicas, so when CS decided to go after people, he was already on the losing side.

GM has clamped down on GS imitators almost since day one in an effort to protect the design. They have much firmer legal footing.

Ian

 

[Ron Scarboro]

GM has clamped down on GS imitators almost since day one in an effort to protect the design. They have much firmer legal footing.

Is GM going after Mongoose over the shape? I thought just over the term "Grand Sport" which is owned/licensed by Duntov/GM.

 

[Ian K]

Is GM going after Mongoose over the shape? I thought just over the term "Grand Sport" which is owned/licensed by Duntov/GM.

Apparently shape too.

GM Sues Mongoose Motors Over Unlicensed Corvette GS, GTP Replicas - WOT

Ian

 

[Ron Scarboro]

In reading the that press release, I find it hard to figure what monetary losses GM has experienced between 1963 and when they licensed to Superformance/Duntov and they weren't actually attempting to sell the vehicle.

I do understand the trademark issues.

In the end the trademark issues for "Corvette" is a no brainer. For "Grand Sport" it is a bit more complicated as other makes have used GS and Grand Sport for their cars much as "GT" and others have been used.

The shape issue is very complicated IMHO. As for the design, good luck unless they actually registered a trademark for that race car shape. Mongoose isn't replicating the shape of a Corvette sold to the public, but one that was modified for race by people that may not be associated with GM. Variations of the design are the basis of patent / trademark litigation.

I don't own one, not a GM guy and not affiliated with anyone at Mongoose. Oh, and I'm not a lawyer.

 

[Ian K]

It's a "trade dress" issue which covers the entirety of the shape.

GM has licensed 1963 Grand Sport for some time, and they are very protective of every Corvette's actual shape. Part of the problem is that Mongoose touts its accuracy.

GM sues Mongoose [Archive] - FFCars.com - Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum

Ian

 

[David Sturch]

Maye the RN should sue GM over the use of Corrvette. I wonder it was copywrited at the time.

Flower class corvette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Maxwell]

Is the GS being produced in South Africa or in the uSA?:huh:

 

[Rich E.]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I suspect a rat......

 

[Maxwell]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I suspect a rat......

A rat ?

 

[Maxwell]

Thanks guys for updating me on the Mongoose saga. I too had this on my list of replicas to have. When ERA stopped I was disappointed and now
again.

I guess Ill have to look this fellow up, hand built beautiful GS YouTube - Tony's 1963 Grand Sport Corvette (car #80)

Great work! Tony