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Old 11th October 2014, 12:59 PM   #21
JeffYoung
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Re: Gonna do it. Lotus Esprit SBF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffbeer2 View Post
Thanks Ian and Bill.

Ian, I definitely like the Rover V8 but it's a lightweight (pun intended) V8 without a lot of punch. Even with good heads and webers or injection it's only going to be good for about 250-275hp max. That's only 50hp more than what I have with the Lotus four banger. I'm looking for more like 350-400hp.
Whoa whoa...

I'm making probably 220ish at the crank with a stock 3.5, stock, cam, 8.5:1 compression, basic port matching and a damn good exhaust on my race car.

350-400 hp is very easily achievable on a Rover V8. It can be punched out to 5.0 and with Wildcat heads and a good injection system (I'd not mess with carbs) you'll see 400 hp and probably do it for $5k.

I woulnd't give up on the Rover V8 yet. I can pick up a Rover V8 block bare and carry it easily - all together it weights around 300 lbs. TOugh to be beat power to weight wise.
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Old 11th October 2014, 01:13 PM   #22
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Re: Gonna do it. Lotus Esprit SBF.

Or just buy a crate engine with the same power and a warranty for your ~4k.
Lots of effort to get power out of a Rover V8, it's doable but cheaper to either start with a SBF/SBC and tune or buy a crate engine.
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Old 11th October 2014, 07:42 PM   #23
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Re: Gonna do it. Lotus Esprit SBF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffYoung View Post
Whoa whoa...

I'm making probably 220ish at the crank with a stock 3.5, stock, cam, 8.5:1 compression, basic port matching and a damn good exhaust on my race car.

350-400 hp is very easily achievable on a Rover V8. It can be punched out to 5.0 and with Wildcat heads and a good injection system (I'd not mess with carbs) you'll see 400 hp and probably do it for $5k.

I woulnd't give up on the Rover V8 yet. I can pick up a Rover V8 block bare and carry it easily - all together it weights around 300 lbs. TOugh to be beat power to weight wise.
You can get a Rover 5Ltr from a TVR and have a lot of change out of 5k.

Have a peek at some rover blurb

3.5
The initial Rover version of the engine had a displacement of 3,528 cc (215.3 cu in). The bore was 88.9 mm (3.50 in) and the stroke was 71.0 mm (2.80 in). It used a sand-cast block with pressed-in iron cylinder liners, and a new intake manifold with two SU carburetors. The Rover engine was heavier but stronger than the Buick engine, with a dry weight of about 170 kg (375 lb). It was first offered in the 1965 Rover P5B saloon, initially making 160 PS (118 kW; 158 hp) at 5200 rpm and 210 lbft (280 Nm) of torque at 2600 rpm on 10.5:1 compression.

3.9/4.0
The 3.9 L Rover V8, a bored-out version of the original 3.5 L engine, was used in several Land Rover vehicles, TVRs, and the MG RV8.

Land Rover used a 3,946 cc (3.946 L; 240.8 cu in) version of the Rover V8 through the 1990s. Bore was increased to 94.0 mm (3.70 in) and stroke remained the same at 71.0 mm (2.80 in). Revised in 1995 (and thereafter referred to as a 4.0 to differentiate it from the earlier version, although displacement remained the same at 3946 cc) with a new intake and exhaust system, extra block ribbing, revised pistons, and larger cross-bolted main-bearings. The 1995 4.0 produced 190 hp (142 kW) and 236 lbft (320 Nm) .

Production of the 4.0 ended in 2001. The final version of the engine, used in the Land Rover Discovery, produced 188 hp (140 kW) at 4750 rpm and 250 lbft (340 Nm) at 2600 rpm.
4.2
Land Rover extended the 3946 cc engine for the top LSE specification of the Classic Range Rover. The 4.2 L engine had a displacement of 4,275 cc (260.9 cu in), and used the crankshaft castings from the failed "Iceberg" diesel engine project. Bore remained the same at 94.0 mm (3.70 in), while stroke increased to 77.0 mm (3.03 in).

4.6
In 1996, Land Rover enlarged the Rover V8 to 4,552 cc (4.552 L; 277.8 cu in). The bore remained the same size as the previous 4.0 at 94.0 mm (3.70 in), but the engine was stroked by 10.9 mm (0.43 in) giving 82 mm (3.2 in) in total. Output was 225 hp (168 kW) and 280 ftlbf (380 Nm).

Production of the 4.6 ended at Solihull, UK, in 2002. The final version, used in the Range Rover, produced 222 hp (166 kW) at 4750 rpm and 300 ftlbf (407 Nm) at 2600 rpm.

The last mass-produced application of the Rover V8 was the Land Rover Discovery, up until the vehicle was redesigned in 2005. It is still used by some hand-built sports cars built by some independent manufacturers.

5.0
A 5 litre 4,997 cc (4.997 L; 304.9 cu in) variant of the Rover V8 was used in two models by British sportscar manufacturer TVR. The bore was 94.0 mm (3.70 in) and the stroke was 90.0 mm (3.54 in). These models, the Griffith and Chimaera used the 5 litre unit in their top-end specifications. The factory quotes up to 340 bhp (254 kW) and 350 lbft (475 Nm) of torque.

Moreover, in the mid-1980s, hot rodders discovered the 215 could be stretched to as much as 305 cu in (5 l), using the Buick 300 crankshaft, new cylinder sleeves, and an assortment of non-Buick parts.It could also be fitted with high-compression cylinder heads from the Morgan +8. Using the 5 liter Rover block and crankshaft, a maximum displacement of 317.8 cu in (5,208 cc) is theoretically possible.
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Old 12th October 2014, 04:23 AM   #24
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Re: Gonna do it. Lotus Esprit SBF.

The RV8 is not a bad engine but it's small and underpowered for most applications, there are a few larger/more powerful versions but they're still not exactly common. So you have to tune the engine to get the same base power as you'd get with an off the shelf engine from someone else.

The TVR 4.0 is only 240hp, the 4.3 is only 280hp. Not that reliable (although to be fair not terrible) I can't think of a reason apart from physical size why you'd want one over a 1UZ-FE which would do 260hp/290hp (depends on year) for 500k miles...

The only one worth getting is the 5l and they're rare, expensive and I still think the SBF/SBC or an LSx is a better bet in the USA.

The big reason for the popularity here in the UK is the numbers as they are our 'domestic' V8 which makes them cheap in comparison to the SBF/SBC, in the USA where there are millions of 'domestic' V8's I don't think that applies.
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Old 13th October 2014, 07:38 AM   #25
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Re: Gonna do it. Lotus Esprit SBF.

LS motor! Make a real cruiser out of it, drive by wire, traction control, cruise control, and LS will be, light, reliable, and cost effective. Great car for open road racing or go to dinner.
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Old 13th October 2014, 12:38 PM   #26
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Re: Gonna do it. Lotus Esprit SBF.

Just seems downright wrong to put a GM motor into a Ford replica...just MHO, you understand. I do have healthy respect for what GM has accomplished with the LS series...seems better suited for a GTM...or if one MUST use a GM engine, the SLC from Fran at RCR, which seems to be becoming more popular than the F5R GTM.

Cheers!!

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Old 13th October 2014, 01:11 PM   #27
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Re: Gonna do it. Lotus Esprit SBF.

Someone hasn't read the OP!
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Old 13th October 2014, 05:24 PM   #28
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Re: Gonna do it. Lotus Esprit SBF.

so why not follow hilly's route, audi 4.2 v8 with audi 6 speed? that's the engine I'll put in when my NA2.2 s3 give up the ghost
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Old 13th October 2014, 05:25 PM   #29
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Re: Gonna do it. Lotus Esprit SBF.

Shame you cant get hold of a AJP V8 to put in it.
I had one in my TVR Cerbera and I think it was the only part of the car that didn't go wrong lol. Cracking engine went like stink, sounded good and they weigh bugger all.

TVR Speed Eight engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 13th October 2014, 08:12 PM   #30
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Re: Gonna do it. Lotus Esprit SBF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastdruid View Post
Someone hasn't read the OP!
Oh...yeah!

I guess the Lotus connection to the GT40 got the best of me...

Cheers!

Doug
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Old 13th October 2014, 08:28 PM   #31
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Re: Gonna do it. Lotus Esprit SBF.

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Originally Posted by YerDugliness View Post
Oh...yeah!

I guess the Lotus connection to the GT40 got the best of me...

Cheers!

Doug
The Lotus Europa was based on the car Chunky pitched to Ford that would become the GT40 so there IS a connection!

And I love the quote that the " Lotus 40 is the Lotus 30 ten worse!"
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Old 13th October 2014, 09:33 PM   #32
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Re: Gonna do it. Lotus Esprit SBF.

Quote:
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The Lotus Europa was based on the car Chunky pitched to Ford that would become the GT40 so there IS a connection!
Forum member Toy264 has one of those Lotus Europas...you can see it on his profile, it is his avatar.

Cheers!

Doug
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Old 14th October 2014, 12:42 AM   #33
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Re: Gonna do it. Lotus Esprit SBF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark IV View Post
The Lotus Europa was based on the car Chunky pitched to Ford that would become the GT40 so there IS a connection!

And I love the quote that the " Lotus 40 is the Lotus 30 ten worse!"

Rick, wasn't that Eric Broadley who was pitching his MK6 Lola to the Ford execs?

Apologies for the thread drift.....
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Old 14th October 2014, 05:41 AM   #34
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Re: Gonna do it. Lotus Esprit SBF.

Hey Cliff, Looks like time to break out the tape measure just hang a un1 or 016 behind it and your done
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Old 14th October 2014, 07:03 AM   #35
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Re: Gonna do it. Lotus Esprit SBF.

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Hey Cliff, Looks like time to break out the tape measure just hang a un1 or 016 behind it and your done
Er hate to rain on your parade but this is what I was saying, the photos do not show the distributors on the front of the cams, or the inlet manifold, or the oil filter.





You've also got problems with Lexus/Toyota not making a manual version so you'll need a custom flywheel.

Still if you want to do it see here for adapter details:
Toyota 1UZ-FE Engine to Audi 012 Transmission (Porsche G86) Adapter Drawings. | 1TG - Design & Build of the One Tonne Guerilla
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Old 22nd October 2014, 03:12 AM   #36
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Re: Gonna do it. Lotus Esprit SBF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffYoung View Post
Whoa whoa...

I'm making probably 220ish at the crank with a stock 3.5, stock, cam, 8.5:1 compression, basic port matching and a damn good exhaust on my race car.

350-400 hp is very easily achievable on a Rover V8. It can be punched out to 5.0 and with Wildcat heads and a good injection system (I'd not mess with carbs) you'll see 400 hp and probably do it for $5k.

I woulnd't give up on the Rover V8 yet. I can pick up a Rover V8 block bare and carry it easily - all together it weights around 300 lbs. TOugh to be beat power to weight wise.
Jeff, good to hear you're getting 220 with those modest mods.

I'm sure you're right that 350-400 is achievable. Personally, I just think it's a heck of a lot easier and cheaper to get those numbers with a relatively standard SBF 331. It may weigh somewhat more but I'm OK with the weight difference.

When I was in my early 20's I did a V8 conversion on an MGB with a 3.5 rover (actually a 215 Buick). With a holley and relatively standard ignition I wasn't that impressed to be honest....and it leaked oil all the time too despite working very hard on trying to get it all sealed up.

For this one I'm looking for very simple and straight forward big power as the installation engineering is going to be tough enough in itself given the unique configuration.

But again, glad to hear the 3.5 is treating you well in the race car!
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Old 22nd October 2014, 08:42 PM   #37
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Re: Gonna do it. Lotus Esprit SBF.

Making a bit of progress here..... Looks like I have a line on a complete 016 set up with transaxle, adapter, shift linkage, etc. I also have an LDS from a 944 turbo 016 for installation.

I'll have to do some shopping for a decent 331 with alloy heads and some go-fast bits on it. I'm also researching some fueling options for it.

One question...anybody know the weight of a fully dressed 331? In other words, with WP, alt, inlet manifold, distrib, etc. About 400lbs or so? I'm guessing the Lotus four banger with all the accessories and the turbo plumbing is about 250lbs or so...so I may be adding about 150lbs here. The car needs to ride lower anyway......

Regarding dimensions, I'm pretty sure the old skool SBF will fit OK. The width and height is real modest for a V8 of that displacement....one of the cool qualities of the SBF, it's super compact. I guess there's only one way to find out. The axle angle looks OK from my eye balling too, but again, only one way to find out.

Last edited by Cliffbeer2; 22nd October 2014 at 08:48 PM.
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Old 23rd October 2014, 08:11 AM   #38
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Re: Gonna do it. Lotus Esprit SBF.

Surely, someone has put a SBF/SBC into a Lotus. I used to be on the Lotus forums many years ago so I know most of those folks consider is sacrilege, but I can't imagine this is unexplored territory.

Redneck + Broke Lotus + Pick 4 Winner = V8 in Lotus

You might save some time and trouble by seeing what went wrong and avoiding those pitfalls.
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Old 23rd October 2014, 09:07 AM   #39
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Re: Gonna do it. Lotus Esprit SBF.

Hey Cliff, check this out....

Rover power in a 47...

Lotus GKN 47D

It's a tiny car and deserves the very lightest engine you can afford. It was no slouch with its original 85hp!
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Old 23rd October 2014, 06:50 PM   #40
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Re: Gonna do it. Lotus Esprit SBF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Earp View Post
Surely, someone has put a SBF/SBC into a Lotus. I used to be on the Lotus forums many years ago so I know most of those folks consider is sacrilege, but I can't imagine this is unexplored territory.

Redneck + Broke Lotus + Pick 4 Winner = V8 in Lotus

You might save some time and trouble by seeing what went wrong and avoiding those pitfalls.
Hey, who you callin' a redneck.....

Yes, you would think it's been done before but for the life of me I can't find any evidence of an SBF (or Chebbie) going into an Esprit. Maybe the rednecks just haven't been hitting it lately with Pick 4? I've seen an Audi 4.2 in an Esprit but that's it. I've seen nice V8 conversions in the back of 911's, V8's in Jaguars, even a Chevy in a Ferrari (not a fan of that), but so far not a SBF in an Esprit.

To me it looks like a pretty natural configuration. That there lodus ingin' dont run too good, and that there furrin' tranny in back is jus a steamin' pile o' dog crap!
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