Two Americas - A US Perspective

Keith

Moderator
Indeed Paul, but an issue that faces the entire Western Hemisphere. This is not a US Centric issue - they just got there first.

I do not know why we should not discuss these burning issues in the Paddock, as long as there is none of this ridiculous and childish yelling and screaming. How on earth is the Internet going to assist global understanding if the result is extreme conflict just because of facial anonymity?

There are some very clever people on the Board and I personally like to listen to them speak.

The West needs to change path, that much is clear. Even the most dogmatic die-hard conservatives see that. We owe that much to our children & grandchildren not to leave them in chaos, just because 'we-had-it-so-good.'
 
A good read. I fear that ultimately, nothing changes until it's too late, or nearly too late. That ultimately, throughout history and in the current times (as seen in the Middle-East), only when the people revolt, do things ever change.

TV, Central Heating, and all the other comfortable BS, prevent anyone from getting to their feet. Wait till the lights do go out, then see what happens.
 
"We cannot expect the Americans to jump from capitalism to communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving Americans small doses of socialism, until they suddenly awake to find they have communism."
 

Pat

Supporter
Well, you asked...

Mr. Simon summarizes the problem of economic disparity, the growth of our prison population and general national malaise as due to “what can only he describes as “greed.” You know, the evil rich, the faceless corporation, the 1% (as of yesterday according the A.P. it’s now the evil wealthy 20%) and the same class warfare blah, blah… It all started in 1980, (no doubt when Ronald Reagan was elected).
So Mr. Simon offers a solution from our past, he writes:
“So how does it get better? In 1932, it got better because they dealt the cards again and there was a communal logic that said nobody's going to get left behind. We're going to figure this out. We're going to get the banks open. From the depths of that depression a social compact was made between worker, between labor and capital that actually allowed people to have some hope”. This is presumably by workers becoming long term wards of the state and the redistribution beneficiaries of government largess appropriated from the greedy hoarders.
Mr. Simon thinks labor unions are an answer when their popularity outside of the public sector is at an all-time low. Their traditional role in protecting worker safety and rights had been taken by numerous government agencies and the courts. Their bureaucracies are often seen as self-serving and corrupt; their memberships dues and fees exorbitant.
Sadly, Mr. Simon may not have been paying attention in history class.
The idyllic “better” 1932: the year Franklin Roosevelt, author of the New Deal” and Time Magazine “Man of the Year” in 1932 and 1934 was elected. The country was in the depths of depression that lasted until WWII. The resurgent Ku Klux Klan in the U.S. was at the zenith of its national political power and discriminatory Jim Crow laws rampant. The massive crop failure of the dust bowl turned millions into migrants and banks failed in droves. In Europe, Adolph Hitler was appointed as Chancellor of Germany in January 1933 when he began what was later called “Hitler’s economic miracle”. (He was the Time Magazine “Man of the Year” in 1938) Those were the halcyon days alright.
Back in 1933, the vast array of government interventions known as the New Deal had features suggestive of the corporate state. The National Industrial Recovery Act created code authorities and codes of practice that governed all aspects of manufacturing and commerce. The National Labor Relations Act made the federal government the final arbiter in labor issues. The Agricultural Adjustment Act introduced central planning to farming. The object was to reduce competition and output in order to keep prices and incomes of particular groups from falling during the Great Depression.
It is a matter of controversy whether President Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal was directly influenced by prevailing European economic policies. Mussolini praised the New Deal as “boldly . . . interventionist in the field of economics,” and Roosevelt complimented Mussolini for his “honest purpose of restoring Italy” and acknowledged that he kept “in fairly close touch with that admirable Italian gentleman.” Also, Hugh Johnson, head of the National Recovery Administration, was known to carry a copy of Raffaello Viglione’s pro-Mussolini book, The Corporate State, with him, presented a copy to Labor Secretary Frances Perkins, and, on retirement, paid tribute to the Italian dictator. As and aside, by 1934, nearly half of all American families lived in poverty, earning less than $1,250 annually.
Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, the “new compact” sought by Mr. Simon would operate indirectly, through centralized control of (nominally) private owners. Where socialism nationalized property explicitly, the “new compact” would so implicitly, by requiring owners to use their property in the “national interest”—that is, as the elites in the autocratic authority conceive it. Not that it matters much but these are words lifted from the economic tenants of fascism.

The state should retain supervision and each property owner should consider himself appointed by the state. It is his duty not to use his property against the interests of others among his own people. This is the crucial matter.
-Adolf Hitler, whose National Socialist (Nazi) Party adapted fascism to Germany beginning in 1933.

Keith, we’ve all seen this before. I grew up in Louisiana where a fellow named Huey Long was (and in many places still is) revered as a martyred saint. 1934, Huey Long unveiled his “Share Our Wealth” plan, a program designed to provide a decent standard of living to all Americans by spreading the nation’s wealth among the people. Long proposed capping personal fortunes at $50 million each (roughly $600 million in today's dollars) through a restructured, progressive federal tax code and sharing the resulting revenue with the public through government benefits and public works. In subsequent speeches and writings, he revised his graduated tax levy on wealth over $1 million to cap fortunes at $5 - $8 million (or $60 - $96 million today).
Long charged that the nation’s economic collapse was the result of the vast disparity between the super-rich and everyone else. A recovery was impossible while 95% of the nation’s wealth was held by only 15% of the population. (Sound familiar?)
In Long’s view, this concentration of money among a handful of wealthy bankers and industrialists restricted its availability for average citizens, who were already struggling with debt and the effects of a shrinking economy. Because no one could afford to buy goods and services, businesses were forced to cut their workforces, thus deepening the economic crisis through a devastating ripple effect.
“Our present plan is that we will allow no one man to own more than $50 million,” Long told his radio audience of millions. "It may be necessary, in working out the plans that no man's fortune would be more than $10 or $15 million. But be that as it may, it will still be more than any one man, or any one man and his children and their children, will be able to spend in their lifetimes; and it is not necessary or reasonable to have wealth piled up beyond the point where we cannot prevent poverty among the masses.”
Long contended it was morally wrong for the government to allow millions of Americans to suffer in abject poverty when there existed a surplus of food, clothing, and shelter. He blamed the mass suffering on a capitalist system run amok and feared that impending civil unrest threatened the democracy.
Interestingly, President Franklin Roosevelt called Long – a fierce opponent, “one of the two most dangerous men in America.” (The other was Gen. Douglas MacArthur.) Ironically he used many of Long’s policies for the “Second New Deal”.
Of course, Long was utterly corrupt and ran Louisiana like a banana republic dictatorship that would make a Mafia Don envious. He was ruthless and his graft and corruption were legendary. His attempt at censorship by taxation culminated in the U.S. Supreme Court decision in Grosjean v. American Press Co. in 1936, a landmark decision that laid the basis for the protection of modern freedom of the press in America. Also read the book “Huey Long” by one of my former history professors, T. Harry Williams or the fictional characterization of Long in the book “All The Kings Men” by Robert Penn Warren. It took Louisiana two generations and a petroleum boom to recover from Mr. Long’s corruption and patronage but in New Orleans, you can still the vestiges of the state’s corrupt past and his family remains in Louisiana politics to this day.
The problem is that when centralized, power tends to corrupt. As John Acton said, “Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it”. By nature, the power becomes unwieldy and bureaucratic with the primary client and beneficiary becoming the power elite who wield the power in their own preservation and enrichment. Case in point; examine members elected to congress net worth prior versus post political careers.
The truth is, the mess we’re in is our fault. Not the rich, fault, the poor fault, everybody’s fault with a payoff for each of us. If you are on the bottom end of the economic rung, blame the evil rich guy. Payoff: you don’t have to study in school or really try very hard, you been convinced you can’t succeed anyway. If you are on the top end, advocate unsustainable government social policies that don’t really work. Payoff: I feel really good about myself and I didn’t have to personally do anything to help those smelly poor people. If you’re in the middle, you really don’t have the time to think about it because you are trying to juggle work, getting the kids to school, the dog fed, manage the grocery bills and get through the day. I like the way P.J. O’Rourke put it, “We've reached the age of accountability. The world is our fault. We are the generation that has an excuse for everything—one of our greatest contributions to modern life—but the world is still our fault.”
The last thing we need is more centralized power. We need a smaller limited government without redundancy and decentralized to the state and local level where it can be more accountable, nimble and efficient.
Most of all we need the value of personal accountability and a belief in the possibility of success reasserted into our society. What Mr. Simon misses is the fundamental tenant of capitalism being individual responsibility, to self, family and society. We’re quick to talk of the responsibility society has for the pregnant inner-city teenager but we never mention the responsibility she may have to society. Simon talks of the responsibility of society for the prison population but not the prisoner’s responsibility for the abhorrent acts that resulted in their incarceration. We have a society that preaches blame and therefor there is no individual responsibility for improving one’s lot. As a result we have substituted a culture that used to be “I must work hard so I can achieve” to a culture that preaches, “those that achieved, did so by screwing someone else” and so they are objects of scorn. The values of hard work, commitment, risk and perseverance are reviled and substituted with blaming, victimization and societal whining. But sadly, I think we’re past the point of no return and our decline will continue.
For insight, read Thomas Sowell’s article on “A Challenge to Our Beliefs”.
Thomas Sowell: A Challenge to Our Beliefs

In other words, Mr. Simon may somewhat deficient in his history, he states, “I don't think Marxism has a very specific clinical answer to what ails us economically” – a brilliant flash of the obvious. Visit Cuba, North Korea, or ask someone in Budapest how much they liked the Soviet Communist era. He clearly doesn’t understand Marxism or really even capitalism. Instead he streams a diatribe of pseudo-intellectual pabulum in an attempt to be the coolest, hippest guy sipping an iced decaf tall sugar-free vanilla Valencia non-fat less ice caramel macchiato at Starbucks but I understand he leads the league in nostril hair.
 
Last edited:

Keith

Moderator
"We cannot expect the Americans to jump from capitalism to communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving Americans small doses of socialism, until they suddenly awake to find they have communism."

Don't beat about the bush Al, what's your take on the subject?

:rolleyes:
 
Anything that is not purely capitalist, need not be by definition, communist. Where is realist in all of this?
 

Keith

Moderator
Pat very good post as usual mate. To be honest, I ignored the partisan part of Simon's submission because, like others, he tends to be partisan throughout. Although he comes across as a 'convenient capitalist' his message is quite clear, but I would argue that he does put forward some interesting philosophical reasoning as to why we are where we are. There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever, that the 3 main catalysts in the premature '70's destruction of Britain's heavy industries came from: Govt, Unions and Management equally.

As you so rightly say, none can take the moral high ground here, but if we are agreeing some kind of bankruptcy of ideas, where do we go? What is the path forward?

I suppose the first step is to say "We Have a Problem"

So, do we?

And, if we do, what is your idea of a way forward?

No-one seems to know how to take the first step.

By the way, McArthur very nearly pulled it off, and I think we'd still be at ground zero if he had.. :worried:
 

Terry Oxandale

Skinny Man
Excellent post, but perhaps because I feel the same way, and even more embarrassing, am unwilling to do anything about it because my economically insignificant voice pales against corporate influence. Our government is now run by closed meetings between corporate and political powers (even down to the local level), with not a thought given to the other 80% of America that is impacted by those back-door agreements. I am ashamed of what America is becoming. It is best reflected in the series "Walking Dead" in which we incrementally turn 100% of our focus and priority on ourselves, and turn our backs on anything not within earshot. I feel I am being progressively pulled into this vortex and becoming a contributor to our own destruction, only because I know it is futile to resist, that nobody gives a damn about what I think, and in 30 years, they may be patting me in the face with a shovel. Yes, I'm falling into America's short-term gain mentality. We are turning from building a society, to surviving in one.

And, if we do, what is your idea of a way forward?

We do have a problem, and we will do nothing about it until a sufficient number of folks are sufficiently pissed off, that an upheaval takes place that is strong enough to overturn a normally stable structure (they've nothing to lose). I don't know what that ratio of complacent versus pissed-off is, for that to happen, but we are definitely headed in that direction. It happens in nature, and in history, and will happen to us because an insufficient numbers of folks, with the power to stop it, won't (gets in their way of their own successes until it become inevitable and unstoppable). Hopefully this won't happen until I'm long gone...hopefully.
 
Last edited:

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Pat,

It appears to me that the average cost of living has increased at a higher rate than the average income. The average income has fallen to the point where (see below)

article-2105131-11DDF887000005DC-294_468x702.jpg


Now I know that many here on our fourm say these Americans are lazy, not paying any taxes, getting a free ride, these horrable people are whats wrong with America, they should not be allowed to vote.....

So in 1970 just 20% of Americans did not make enough to pay taxes, but today that number is much higher.

During that same time, the amount of wealth of the few has increased substantially.

Is seems to me that this has been extreme "wealth redistribution", but not the kind Fox talks about.

I think all full time working Americans should make enough to pay taxes.

Pat, If all full time, working Americans were paid enough to actually pay taxes, do you think America would be better off or worse off?

If all full time, working Americans were paid enough to buy a car, a computer, maybe even a home, do you think America Would be better off or worse off.
 
Last edited:

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Well, I think I have found the problem......

As you can see, In 1970, the wealth concentrated with the few started to rise, just as the Americans who do not make enough to pay taxes started to increase.



Yes wealth redistribution is a real problem............

The wealthy own the politicians and we have allowed them to destroy the middle class.
 
Last edited:

Keith

Moderator
There has been a sustained assault on the middle class here for many years although it appears to have abated somewhat..

'Middle Class' a former euphemism for the 'engine room' of UK economics, endeavour, and mass market has largely become a term of abuse. How strange.
 
The middle supports both ends Keith. I don't think there has been any let up. Its wrong to pull so hard on one group only, but in reality, there are more of the middle to exploit. I accept that some would argue that there are higher numbers at the low end. I disagree, though. To me, low means you don't own a car and don't jet off to tora tora melinos every year.

The middle never rose in anger either, so they are complacent, self righteous and eager to be 'seen' as lovely and caring for the lower classes. So, they will jump into a fight, but will never start one. Pussies. I am in this group! This is why we can be leaned on so indiscriminately and unfairly by to those that rule us all.
 

Keith

Moderator
Good points Mark. I am learning.

My sister is desperate to remain middle class whereas I have no concept of class other than to me, it's a set of unwritten lifestyle rules, and you either have it, or you don't. You can't buy it, acquire it or learn it. You are or you ain't (a class act whichever set of rules you follow).

I strongly believe the Middle Class comes to represent Britain's better values, but as I'm not part of it, I can't really comment further.

But, destroy the middle ground at your peril!
 

Pat

Supporter
Pat,

It appears to me that the average cost of living has increased at a higher rate than the average income. The average income has fallen to the point where (see below)

Pat, If all full time, working Americans were paid enough to actually pay taxes, do you think America would be better off or worse off?

If all full time, working Americans were paid enough to buy a car, a computer, maybe even a home, do you think America Would be better off or worse off.

Jim, if the government continues to spend the amounts of money is does now, the number of taxpayers won't matter and the cost of living will continue to spiral as the government seeks to monetize its debt to keep the markets stable and its own interest rates low. By inflating the stock market it also reaps the benefit of taxation on the inflated gains.

For clarification, your chart shows the percentage of people that don't pay taxes, not the average income. So I'm not sure of the point you are making. If you are using tax rolls to contend that "wealth distribution is the problem" I'd dispute that. You don’t mention the fact that 2 million people fewer are in the American workforce today than in 2007 in spite of 14 million more of working age. That is a lot of people not paying income taxes and in many cases drawing government financial support.

Further, I guess I don't really understand your "problem" with wealth distribution. It sounds like you are simply making my previous post point about culture in that you seem to want to solve the problem simply by removing the wealth from one group to redistribute it to the other end of the scale. The problem is, at some point you run out of the money to take from those on the upper end of the scale.
But there is a payoff. You don't have to solve unemployment, educational quality or gang violence, you keep a large political constituency happy and you keep your political party in power-until the money runs out. In the long run, the system collapses and Joe Paycheck and his kids have nothing. I don't see that as a very good option as inevitable as it may be. When economic systems collapse, history brings us people like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Mugabe; which may well be our future.

If the current situation is an unhappy one, how is that possible when we have been progressively redistributing wealth for years? If you want to talk tax distribution, according to the congressional budget office, in 1979, the poorest 20% of earners paid no income tax. By 2007, that same group had a negative income tax rate of 6.8%. In other words, they took home 6.8% more than they paid in to the federal government. Middle income Americans paid an effective income tax rate (the amount paid after deductions) of 7.5% in 1979. That rate was cut to 3.3% in 2007, a drop of more than 50%.

In the days of Jimmy Carter, Americans in the top one percent of earners paid an effective tax rate of 21.8%. With the Reagan/Bush/Bush cuts the effective tax rate fell all the way to ... wait for it ... 19%. A 13% break for the rich one percenters versus the 50% for the middle income earners.

As I mentioned, "wealth redistribution" has been going on for years. Both President Bush's did it as did Mr. Clinton and Mr. Obama. When taking into account all federal taxes, in the past few decades, the poor and middle class have benefited more than their wealthy counterparts. In 1979, the total effective federal tax rate (including payroll taxes, excise, capital gains, estate, and corporate taxes) was 8% for the poorest Americans and 18.6% for middle income earners. With the Reagan and Bush tax cuts, those rates fell 50% and 23%, respectively while the top one percent of earners had their total effective tax rate fall 21% over the same time period. The tax cuts enacted by Reagan and Bush have benefited the poor and middle class more than the wealthy. Their taxes have been cut more drastically than wealthy Americans, and many have been taken off the tax rolls altogether (which is the problem I have with your chart). In 2009, a majority of Americans paid no federal income tax. The poor and middle class also pay a far lower percentage of the total revenue pie now. Despite across the board tax cuts, revenues have remained essentially constant. Revenues remained at or near historic levels as a percentage of GDP until the financial collapse in 2007. In fact, tax revenue as a percentage of GDP was exactly the same in 1979 as it was in 2007: 18.5%. With the recession, tax revenue has dipped to 14.9% of GDP, while spending has risen to 25%, which accounts for our widening deficit.

The tax code has also become more progressive. As indicated above, the top 1% of earners now pay an effective income tax rate of 19%, nearly six times the percent paid by middle income earners (3.3%). In 1979, the differential between the rate paid by the top one percent was less than three times that of middle class earners.

Not surprisingly, the wealthy are also paying more of the tab now than they did 30 years ago. In 1980, the top 5% of income earners paid 37% of all income tax revenue, while the bottom 50% paid 7%. By 2009, the top 5% of earners paid a whopping 59%, while the bottom half of earners paid just 2.25% of the total pie.

The wealthy also pay more than their representative income would dictate. According to the most recent data available from the IRS, the top 1% earned 17% of the total income in 2009. Meanwhile, they paid 37% of all the taxes paid. The bottom half of earners took in 13% of the 2009 total taxable income, yet paid just 2.25% of the total tax revenue.

If current tax rates are left in place, the CBO projects that tax revenue will return to historic levels by 2021, while spending will remain well above historic levels, 26% of GDP. The picture gets even worse with time. The CBO predicts spending to reach 34% of GDP by 2035. It would be impossible to collect 34% of GDP in revenue without steep tax increases on all Americans; including the poor and middle class. There simply aren’t enough rich people to pay the bill and enough wealth to redistribute.

To put this in perspective, in order to close the budget gap in 2013 solely on the backs of those making more than $250,000, the two highest tax brackets would have to rise to 132 percent and 142 percent. Of course, it’s impossible to tax individuals more than 100%; even if it were desirable. There simply isn't enough wealth to "redistribute". While the government spent more, the national overall, median household net worth decreased by $12,993, or 16 percent, between 2000 and 2011. The wealth IS being redistributed, from the population to the government and the cabal of its political/corporate/union/special interest allies at the expense of everyone else. The government is simply sucking the population dry.

Unfortunately, as our government spending and corresponding borrowing has ballooned, it is only projected to increase with time. This has led to government monetizing its debt with massive injections of cash into the stock markets to keep the federal borrowing rate low and markets stable creating the economic spiral you reference. Watch what happens to the market when the FED stops pumping money into it.

The problem isn't how much the government is getting in revenue; it's how much it's spending. As I've posted before, Based on the current trajectory, it will only get worse until it collapses. Then only the very privileged will be able to buy a car, a home or a computer and they will have cleverly shielded their wealth from government seizure.
Jim, if you are defending the current system, it's simply not sustainable. If you are advocating further "wealth redistribution" we've been doing it for years and it doesn't seem to be working.
“Insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results” -Billar Wilson
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
Regarding the "redistribution of wealth", 'help the other guy' philosopy - it's a dud from the get-go. Time and time again it's been shown that too many who haven't earned what they have soon lose/blow/part with (IOW 'squander' for lack of a better word) whatever is/has been 'handed' to them. Reason? 'No clue how to manage money, lack of fiscal/personal dicipline along with an irresponsible sense of priorities and no real clue or desire to learn/change. Possibly the clearest example of that is reflected in what happens to the 'jackpots' of so many lottery winners. Their lotto money is usually gone in a year or two and they're right back to whatever econ condition they were in before the lotto 'freed' them. They basically go back to their 'comfort zone/level'. A monthly govt handout is, in a sense, just another type of lotto jackpot...and it is/will be blown in much the same way...but, unlike the way the lotto winnings are funded, govt handouts are funded at the involuntary expense of 'the other guy'. And, in the end, what incentive does 'the other guy' who works hard 40-60+ hours a week earning his living have to continue doing so when he sees Joe next door sitting on his butt all day doing nothing and 'taking home' darned near as much? Likewise, what incentive does "Joe" have to get OFF his butt and become a productive, tax paying member of society? (The list of countries that have implemented 'share the wealth' policies and have failed is quite long to date. Mr. Simon maybe ought to research that.)

Maggie Thatcher was right...the trouble with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money.

'Just my UN-p.c., UNcompassonate, heartless, selfish, UNcaring, ruthless, money grubbing, GREEDY opinion...backed up by both history and common sense.
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Pat,

The point I'm making is not that the wealthy should pay more taxes (although they and everyone else should), what I'm saying is that the Average full time worker in America is not paid enough................

If a full time worker is not paid enough to pay taxes then they are not being paid enough.

In 1970 only 12% of Americans did not make enough to pay taxes, today that number is closer to 50%.

Over the years since 1970, as full time workers buying power was gradually reduced, the profits made by the owners/investors have gone up substantially.

What I'm saying is that the Average working American need to have their income raised to the point where 80 to 90% do make enough to pay taxes.

Now this will cut the massive profit somewhat, but then again when 40%+ of Americans have a living wage, perhaps they too can purchse the products they make/sell and when sales increase, taxes increase and profits increase. This seems like a win-win to me.

There is absoulutly no doubt that since 1970, our countries wealth has been redistributed away from the average working American and has wound up with the few richest Americans.

This has made a few very rich but is also destroying the working class.

So guys tell me, which senario would be better for our country, economy and people:

A few very, very wealthy folks or a vibrant working class with a little left over at the end of the month to perhaps go to the mall...............
 
Last edited:

Pat

Supporter
Pat,

The point I'm making is not that the wealthy should pay more taxes (although they and everyone else should), what I'm saying is that the Average full time worker in America is not paid enough................

A few very, very wealthy folks or a vibrant working class with a little left over at the end of the month to perhaps go to the mall...............

Interesting thought Jim. You are reflecting a lot of the “living wage” arguments being bounced around in various circles.
Let’s look at some scenarios and history. The Economic Policy Institute recently calculated how much a household needs to earn to get by. A “secure and modest” income for New York family of four topped $93,000—nearly double the median household income. So let’s start there. What might happen if you mandate the “living wage” in New York to be $93K? Would that have an effect on the number of jobs, the cost of food, rent, and utilities? $93K seems like a lot of money, so who gets to decide the “living wage”? The government might be a good start and certainly they have been involved with the minimum wage. How has that worked? In 1938 the government instituted the minimum wage for certain occupations. It was 25 cents an hour. In California it is now $8 per hour going to $10. Is the dramatic increase from 1938 reflected in the improvement in income disparity in California today?

Historically, economics defines wages as market prices that reflect a worker’s value of output and the scarcity of his or her skills in the marketplace. This in turn drove retail prices and return on investment. You are seeking to substitute a government wage and therefore price control model for what had been market pricing. How did that work in the 70s ?
The important question is how to give them the opportunities and resources to escape poverty in a sustainable way. If we move the bottom rung of the ladder up too high, we might find it impossible for anyone to get on it in the first place. That sustainability has historically come from a growing employment market paying for skills with a return on the wage investment for the employer. The employer in turn sustains that with returns in the marketplace. We can pay burger flippers $15 an hour, more than double the minimum wage. So how do we pay the managers? How much do we have to charge for a burger and how much are people willing to pay? If the franchise investors will see lower returns and are they then less likely to see it as a viable investment reducing future jobs? Is the viability of permanent burger flipper careers good for society?

Research shows that higher minimum wages reduce teenage education levels and decrease workers’ long-term earnings. It seems to make dropping out of high school a viable option. Is that a good thing?

I certainly appreciate where your heart is Jim (one of the reasons I like you) but the options being presented for wealth redistribution are neither scalable nor sustainable.
 
Back
Top