gents, I was maneuvering my car in tight quarters yesterday, and managed to stall it. When I went to restart, I got no rotation, no nothing except a faint click. Battery is charged. After sleeping on it, I decided the pinion must be blocked from engaging the ring gear. I moved the car about 4 inches while in gear, thus moving the engine slightly. And it started right up. I can't recall anything like this happening before, certainly not in any of the street cars I've been in, driven, or owned. Is this just a fluke, or is there something I should be looking for?
weird starter problem
- Thread starter spud
- Start date
Mike Pass
Supporter
Yes. I had exactly the same. The problem was that when the solenoid pulled the starter gear forward the contacts for the motor did not engage so the motor did not turn. The contacts were dirty/worn. Took it to the local car electrics guys and they stripped it and fitted new contacts for £30. Problem fixed and has been fine since. If the contacts are dirty or worn due to the heavy starting current the starting can get intermittent or not work at all - will only get worse until the contacts are renewed.
Cheers
Mike
Cheers
Mike
Ian Anderson
Lifetime Supporter
I had similar thing! But totally different cause!
I found on mine the click was the master power off switch was not making correctly. The key contacts are spring loaded and the plastic key appeared to have worn slightly. A Manila cardboard disc cut out and dropped into the switch increased the spring pressure to get the contacts to work?
This is the type of switch I refer to. https://www.carbuilder.com/uk/battery-isolator-cut-off-switch-standard-version
was a bugger to find but the fix has lasted years!
ian
I found on mine the click was the master power off switch was not making correctly. The key contacts are spring loaded and the plastic key appeared to have worn slightly. A Manila cardboard disc cut out and dropped into the switch increased the spring pressure to get the contacts to work?
This is the type of switch I refer to. https://www.carbuilder.com/uk/battery-isolator-cut-off-switch-standard-version
was a bugger to find but the fix has lasted years!
ian
Heat soak?
In your first post you wrote "maneuvering my car in tight quarters"......
Drive until hot and let idle until the fan kicks in and then switch off the engine (YES, OK - wait until fan switches off). Now your engine compartment should be really hot.
Now try to restart und see what happens....
If it does not start - wait until engine is cold and try to restart again.
If it starts - heat soak should be a possible route cause
If it does not start.......???
In your first post you wrote "maneuvering my car in tight quarters"......
Drive until hot and let idle until the fan kicks in and then switch off the engine (YES, OK - wait until fan switches off). Now your engine compartment should be really hot.
Now try to restart und see what happens....
If it does not start - wait until engine is cold and try to restart again.
If it starts - heat soak should be a possible route cause
If it does not start.......???
In both circumstances, the engine was fully warm. Starting up when everything has cooled has not be problematic. Routing of exhaust does not particularly heat the starter. Cables have full integrity and good connections/tight lugs. Any suggestions as to what failure heat could cause in the starter?
I can't explain well enough..... do a Google search, there is a lot of information.....
www.ffcars.com
I also stumbled over this video which I think gives good information.
How to check starter solenoid for heat soak? - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards
Tech / General Engine - How to check starter solenoid for heat soak? - I've had this heat soak issue for a while now. I had replaced the starter/solenoid, but it still does the same thing. I didn't replace it myself, so there is the concern I got hosed possibly and the refurbished solenoid is...
www.thirdgen.org
What causes the starter to get hot then not want to...
www.ffcars.com
What are the symptoms of heat soak? - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion
C3 Tech/Performance - What are the symptoms of heat soak? - Could somebody explain what symptoms a car will exhibit if it has starter heat soak. Will the car crank at all? How long does the starter have to cool before the engine will crank? Any other common traits? Appreciate any info.
www.corvetteforum.com
I also stumbled over this video which I think gives good information.
I pulled the starter and partially disassembled to look at the contacts and brushes - pics attached. Nothing here seems too worn, so I elected to clean the contacts, plunger and rotor a little and reassemble. Does anyone see something wrong?
Attachments
Ron McCall
Supporter
On my GT-R, I had a XS Power battery issue that caused this exact issue. The battery would provide 12.5V and would crank the battery if the starter was cold but once it was up to temp, it would only click. Installed a Braille battery and the issue never returned.
Ron
Ron
Whats your ignition timing at idle ?
Try retarding it 2degree.
Heatsoak hot start stall of the starter on a fully warmed engine can also be caused by just a tad to much advance on idle.
I usualy seek my sweet spot ignition timing @ idle this way. When my starter won't start on a hot engine, I take two degrees ignition timing out and Ill have reached my ignition timing @ idle sweet spot.
(Old skool ignition tuning, works also with EFI tables).
Might be worth to check this out before you dismantle the startermotor.
Try retarding it 2degree.
Heatsoak hot start stall of the starter on a fully warmed engine can also be caused by just a tad to much advance on idle.
I usualy seek my sweet spot ignition timing @ idle this way. When my starter won't start on a hot engine, I take two degrees ignition timing out and Ill have reached my ignition timing @ idle sweet spot.
(Old skool ignition tuning, works also with EFI tables).
Might be worth to check this out before you dismantle the startermotor.
Engine is managed by a GM E38 ECU, don't know what the start up timing is but it is stock programming, with a very mild cam. Ordinarily, the engine fires very quickly. I've only had the no-crank issue occur twice, both times after the car stalled (I have a small tuning issue to deal with). I don't think the starter gets particularly hot as the nearest primary is probably 12 inches away, and all cables/connections are equally distant from big heat sources, and are all in good condition and appropriately sized. Battery is an Optima red top at the other end of the car, maintained with a NOCO battery tender. Haven't load tested the battery, but no reason to suspect any issues there.
Prior to installing the GM ECU, the car was very difficult to start, often requiring 10-20 seconds of cranking to get the car to fire. I'm hoping that my problem was just carbon buildup on the contacts that won't recur since it usually fires instantly now. There appears to be very little physical wear on the solenoid contacts, and the brushes have plenty of material left on them.
Prior to installing the GM ECU, the car was very difficult to start, often requiring 10-20 seconds of cranking to get the car to fire. I'm hoping that my problem was just carbon buildup on the contacts that won't recur since it usually fires instantly now. There appears to be very little physical wear on the solenoid contacts, and the brushes have plenty of material left on them.
Now we are getting somewhere. What ecu was it running before?
Was it progammable.
Is your current ecu progammable.
Does the current ecu maches the engine.
Are you running an ignition distributor or coilpacks. Both systems can be signaled by a cranktrigger.
Was it progammable.
Is your current ecu progammable.
Does the current ecu maches the engine.
Are you running an ignition distributor or coilpacks. Both systems can be signaled by a cranktrigger.
It was running an Omega ECU on Alpha N, programmable. Now stock GM E38 ECU as originally used to run LS7 with coil packs, a native installation with tons of manufacturer R&D behind it. Not the most up to date ECU, but very solid and has an OBD2 output, which is required in my neck of the woods. Programmable, with appropriate software.
So whats your idle ignition timing
Bill Kearley
Supporter
Have you checked the current draw when hot or the armature on a growler?
