5 point vs. 6 point harness

DaveM

Supporter
I'd go with 6 point if at all possible. Better for the private parts if in a crash! Most race organizations require or prefer 6 point too. 5 point may be easier to mount in some situations, but that's minor.
 
I'd go 6 point as well. At least in the US, the SCCA strongly recommends it. I think it also better distributes the shock should you ever have the misfortune of a head-on. I've been end over end (twice) followed by a pair of barrel rolls in a race car and with bruises at each belt point. Needless to say, I glad the ones from the anti-submarine belt were on my legs and not "elsewhere". I'm also a serious believer in the HANS Device.
 

Howard Jones

Supporter
Think of a parachute harness with a 5 point system...........get it. I started to write the medical, mechanical, system reason for this but I like the parachute concept better.
 
What a coincidence, I was considering the same question last night.

In the end I figured 6-point on the basis of the more places the load was spread amongst the better.

Do however consider googling harness degloving
Just not from work or similar
Or after eating
Or if you are of a nervous disposition...

I won't post any links as it's very unpleasant but serves as a warning, just whatever you do ensure the belts are properly mounted and used. That means proper 6-point seats not squeezing 6-point belts through a 5-point seat.
 
Is Schroth still the only DOT harness in 5 or 6 point?

By the time you run them through a smallish street style "hole", do you really think it'll make a legitimate difference? I understand the parachute analogy, but even if mounting points are 8-12" apart but then threaded through a 4" seat opening.......anything really achieved. I'm not going to star in adult entertainment, but I don't think anything would fit between the straps by that point.
 

Howard Jones

Supporter
The hole in the seat should be wide enough to allow the two belts going between the legs to extend in a straight line to the mount points located as recommended by the belt manufacture.

Safety harnesses MUST be installed exactly as recommended by the manufacture. The seat MUST accommodate the belt installation requirements and the mounting points must be located as required as designed by the belt system. There just isn't any other way to do this.

The top mount points must be about +- 5-10 degrees or so to a point directly behind the top of the shoulders and wide enough apart to cause the belts to follow the vertical line between the arm socket and the neck for example. They also must be held in place so that they cannot be pulled together against your neck. If these mount points are much below the correct placement such as to the floor or to a very low horizontal roll bar element, then the downward direction of tension in a shunt as the body it thrown forward WILL compress the spine.

All of this equipment is the ONLY thing you have working for you in a shunt. How it all looks in a car show will be meaningless if you stop in about 6 feet from 40mph as a result of putting it into a tire wall.

The seat itself should be one that is designed to work with a 6 point harness system. I will tell you that some seats such as standard Cobra, the car not the seat manufacture, style don't even come close to useable as a race seat. For a duel use car that is usually driven on the street but sees track work from time to time it might be a good idea to change driver seats when at the track. I decent seat can be had from Kirkey for just a few hundred bucks. This one will fit in a SLC if you cut down the top of the head piece by 2 inch's.

Kirkey Racing - Browse Products
 
I use Kirkey also and find it surprising comfortable. I was looking at Schroth's website when asking my question on seats. From their illustrations, I couldn't see or appreciate a substantial difference from my 5 point seat. That was kind of my thoughts behind the tongue and cheek question. Are there seats for an SLC and street use that can put the 6 point to use? I agree in theory that it is superior, but your point in correct application is at root of question. Can a 6 point be truly used in most SLC or for that fact, street applications to any real advantage because of mounting/seat limitations?
 
It may be. The caveate here(from what I have read over the years), is that there are basicly 2 requirements for seatbelts. The first is that it has to have 3 points of attachment. They don't care if it is more. You just can't have a lap belt hooked. Has to be at least 3 points holding you. All of the belts that enthusiast use are SFI and/or FIA. Both of which exceed DOT strenght requirements. Haven't run across any belts that aren't. The second is, DOT tells you where they have to be mounted. Not on seats or floor pans. They have to be hard mounted(frame or roll cage). The one exception to this that I know of is when you have a floor like this:

you can reinforce it with a piece of channel or box, to strenghten it. It just can't be a smooth surface(even reinforced with a piece of strap). Anybody read any different??
By the way. A 6 point seperates the two crotch straps and directs them away from the family jewels.

Bill
 
I'm confused regarding 6 point specific seats. There are not many out there.

Team Tech stress the importance for 2 sub strap holes when using a 6 point. Schroth doesn't mention that detail specifically in any instructions I found on the web. When I spoke to a motorsports company that distributes Schroth harnesses, they said I would be fine using a seat with 1 sub strap hole with a 6 point harness...
 
Ricardo,
I think if you look at "most" if not almost all the different seats out there you will find just one hole that should be wide enough for the straps to be away from each other. The separation of the two straps is what is important. It pulls the two straps to the side and leaves room for the family jewels. Also the two straps are sewn into the harness hardware so there is no way to get them through two holes without threading them through the seat before attaching the belt and the seat to the frame. Not only that it would be a bitch getting the seat in and out because the straps don't come that far through the hole to attach to the harness. You also would have to undo the webbing each time you took the seat out. I can almost guess you haven't attempted to do the webbing yet. Can you imagine how far your legs would have to be apart to do it that way?? I can't remember seeing two holes on any seats. Evidently there are some out there, or your tech guys would not have said you need them. Lots of luck on doing it that way, cause your going to need it when you try to do it that way.

Bill
 
Ricardo,
I think if you look at "most" if not almost all the different seats out there you will find just one hole that should be wide enough for the straps to be away from each other. The separation of the two straps is what is important. It pulls the two straps to the side and leaves room for the family jewels. Also the two straps are sewn into the harness hardware so there is no way to get them through two holes without threading them through the seat before attaching the belt and the seat to the frame. Not only that it would be a bitch getting the seat in and out because the straps don't come that far through the hole to attach to the harness. You also would have to undo the webbing each time you took the seat out. I can almost guess you haven't attempted to do the webbing yet. Can you imagine how far your legs would have to be apart to do it that way?? I can't remember seeing two holes on any seats. Evidently there are some out there, or your tech guys would not have said you need them. Lots of luck on doing it that way, cause your going to need it when you try to do it that way.

Bill

To update this thread, I spoke to Schroth and they said their 6 point is designed to work with most racing seats that have a single sub belt hole.

One thing I've found is that although there are general guidelines for anchor point angles and things like that from sanctioning bodies, it's important to follow the directions of the harness you purchase and contact them for guidance on details that aren't specifically spelled out in their instructions.
 
To update this thread, I spoke to Schroth and they said their 6 point is designed to work with most racing seats that have a single sub belt hole.

One thing I've found is that although there are general guidelines for anchor point angles and things like that from sanctioning bodies, it's important to follow the directions of the harness you purchase and contact them for guidance on details that aren't specifically spelled out in their instructions.
Personally, I prefer the 5 point harness. 6 point is very messy, takes a long time to get together, and grabs in all sorts of places. :shocked:
 
Personally, I prefer the 5 point harness. 6 point is very messy, takes a long time to get together, and grabs in all sorts of places. :shocked:
That's the first time I've heard or read someone preferring a 5 point over a 6 point and saying the 5 point was more comfortable and the 6 point was the harness that was "grabbing stuff".

Obviously you have more experience than most on this board.
 
Personally, I prefer the 5 point harness. 6 point is very messy, takes a long time to get together, and grabs in all sorts of places. :shocked:[/QUOTE]

Ryan, I'm wondering if you prefer 3" or 2" wide belts. I had 2" before and thought they dug in compared 3". It's always nice to have a pros opinion....
 
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