All-Wheel Drive Superlite Coupe?

[Les]

You know, the

• Audi R8
• Lamborghini Gallardo
• Porsche 959
• Nissan GT-R

all do very well with all-wheel drive.

All-wheel drive is a good way to control mondo horsepower, which everyone on this board seems to love. :heart:

Moi? In love with horespower? But of course!

I have read on this forum that the interior of the SL-C is about as spacious as a Corvette's. A Corvette has a great big space between the seats for a driveshaft to pass through (see photo, below).

image courtesy of and c www.corvetteclinic.com.au

How about it? Can we slip a driveshaft up to the front wheels?

Bassanio et Portia

 

[Doc Kaler]

Bassanio,

I have no idea how you would get the driveshaft around the engine!

 

[Donnie Barnes]

People are wedging small block Chevy engines in all kind of tight spaces. I say just put another engine up front! Should be as simple as parallel shift and throttle linkage, right?


--Donnie

 

[Dom]

I have thought about an Ultima GTR built using a wrecked Audi R8's engine and 'box etc.

Z Cars did a 4wd Ultima, so there is room for a propshaft, which means the SLC maybe has room and the R8 would make a nice donor and I am a big fan of that V8, although th enew V10 or a Gallardo might make an even nice donor?

Light, big power, tons of grip and traction... All weather ability! I like!

 

[Girf]

I have read on this forum that the interior of the SL-C is about as spacious as a Corvette's. A Corvette has a great big space between the seats for a driveshaft to pass through (see photo, below).


image courtesy of and c www.corvetteclinic.com.au

How about it? Can we slip a driveshaft up to the front wheels?

Bassanio et Portia

There are a lot of pictures of the SL-c interiro on this forum, on the RCR site and in various magazines. No offense but have you ever looked at them.??

There is no room between the seats. None. Zero.

 

[Girf]

Man I hate not being able to edit. Forgive the spell checking, I submitted before I was done.

The interior is large but seats are moved inboard. The area between seats is only about 3 inches and it is occupied by the mono's back bone tubing.

 

[Ben Whittle]

I've been trying to find out for ages the layout and which trans the Gallardo/R8 use.

I think I found out who the Gallardo one is but I can't get any decent pics of how the power is transfered to the front, I've been thinking about the 4WD idea for a while....

Handling wise I think it's not necessary but if you want to push REALLY big numbers to the ground then I think it would be a big helping hand....

Anyone got more info/pics on the trans these use?

 

[Brian Hamilton]

They both use the same transaxle. It has a shaft that comes off the transaxle and runs up to the front. One of the Lambo's actually has the front driveshaft go through the oil pan. Maybe that was the Diablo...

 

[Les]

There are a lot of pictures of the SL-c interiro on this forum, on the RCR site and in various magazines. No offense but have you ever looked at them.??

There is no room between the seats. None. Zero.

. . .

The interior is large but seats are moved inboard. The area between seats is only about 3 inches and it is occupied by the mono's back bone tubing.

Thanks, Girf. No offense taken. I did not know there was not enough room between the seats of an SL-C to pass a propshaft between them. I have looked at photos of the SL-C interior, but have not seen a photo that gave to me the width between the seats. I appreciate the information!

Man I hate not being able to edit. Forgive the spell checking, I submitted before I was done.

That's okay, Girf. I get things wrong, too. We are all moving forward toward that super car, the Superlite SL-C.

Gratefully yours,

Bassanio et Portia

 

[Les]

Man I hate not being able to edit. Forgive the spell checking, I submitted before I was done.

The interior is large but seats are moved inboard. The area between seats is only about 3 inches and it is occupied by the mono's back bone tubing.

Girf, you provide invaluable information! 3 inches between the seats, filled up with the main back bone tubing.

:idea:

Hmmm, that gives me two ideas.

1. Ever since the 924 model, Porsche has used torque tubes to pass driveshafts from front to back (and the other way 'round). Maybe the three-inch diameter main back bone tube could be used for two purposes:

a. to stiffen the chassis

b. to function as a torque tube through which to pass a slender carbon fiber propshaft.

2. If we cannot transmit power to the front wheels mechanically, we could do it hydraulically. Hydraulic "hybrid" technology is already available. It is well known and well developed, as opposed to electric hybrid technology.

Hmmm . . . let me think . . . a spun carbon fiber accumulator and reservoir . . . nice 3,000 psi titanium tubes from the old Boeing Surplus to route hydraulic fluid to and from the front . . . hydraulic motors in the front, reversing flow under braking, to recharge the system . . .

We could claim that the all wheel drive "hybrid" SL-C is "green"!

It would be soooo terrible: more horsepower put down on the road, better acceleration, better fuel mileage, better image with the ecomentalists. Poor us! :sad: :laugh:

Bassanio et Portia

 

[Rick S.]

what about an electric motor for the front end? Then you wouldn't have to deal with trying to figure out how to provide a mechanical drive to the front, from the mid-engine location. Maybe it doesn't have to provide "drive power" except in large throttle and hi-g cornering. Relatively small batteries charged by a generator on the engine, with power regenerated during braking...

 

[Chad]

Or instead of batteries, could you use a capacitor? You'd be able to release the energy much more quickly. And also, isn't a capacitor's energy density much more than a battery? So that would mean less weight.

It would only be used for short bursts, sort of like nitrous...except without the nitrous...

 

[Al Jones]

Guys, it's not fast enough the way it is?

 

[J. Salmon]

It's more than just transferring power up there. The front differential/axle will be sitting about where the pedal box should be, I think.

 

[Ron Earp]

AWD doesn't necessarily mean it'll be faster or more efficient. It definitely means it'll be heavier and more complex.

Light makes right. Less is more.

Stick to 2 RWD.

 

[Jack]

Fagedaboutit! Too complex, adds weight and a myriad of other problems will raise thier ugly head!

 

[Doc Kaler]

Bassanio,

Here is a photo of the SL-C "backbone":

 

[Les]

I've been trying to find out for ages the layout and which trans the Gallardo/R8 use.

. . .

Anyone got more info/pics on the trans these use?

As a matter of fact, Ben, I just happen to have a couple of photos, just laying around.

The way they mechanically route power to the front wheels depends upon where they put the transmission.

If they put the transmission in front of the engine, like they do in the Bugatti Veyron and the Lamborghini Murcielago, it looks like this:

image courtesy of and c Bugatti

Or if they put the transmission behind the engine, like Lamborghini did in the Gallardo, they route it around, like this:

image courtesy of and c www.vwvortex.com

Here is a side view, showing the packaging:

image courtesy of and c www.vwvortex.com

And from the top:

image courtesy of and c www.vwvortex.com

Here is a detail of the transmission system:

image courtesy of and c www.vwvortex.com

Now, that exemplifies mechanical transmission of power up to the front wheels. For hydraulic transmission of power, that is something else again . . . .

Bassanio et Portia

 

[Donnie Barnes]

Well, if you're going for "ultimate" power and handling, then forget about the passenger seat. That offset model in the last picture lets the driveshaft go around the driver (in a LHD setup). But then perhaps you should just get on the list for a DP1 from here:

dp vehicle home

850 pounds, AWD, and a mere 500HP. Scary.


--Donnie

 

[Girf]

At some point the shear amount of modification you would have to do to the chassis is plain undoable. No amount of money, time or skill is going t change the fact that the back bone is centrally located. If you scrap the triangulated square tubing, and move the seats outboard (causing problems with pedal box offset, you would still need some form of central structure to provide rigidity, support and carry the torque tube.

So to indulge the fantasy you could make a square box out of .5 inch aluminum plate. It would still need to be a good 6 or 7 inches wide. Now you have to fix your steering geometry and linkage. I still do not think the rear axle will line up (what with transfer cases fore and aft) so you may need to stretch the rear sub frame as well.

At this point it is cheaper to just start from scratch with a new chassis and maybe you can keep the SL-C body. Hell at that point make your chassis out of carbon composite panel like a Mosler. I was told that one could have a carbon composite panel monocoque delivered and ready to assemble for about 14k (you provide the cad). Teklam http://www.teklam.com/ can cut them for you. Now you do not even need to know how to weld. If you can do a puzzle you can make a chassis.

I am trying not to be a nay-sayer but on every board I belong to this flight of fantasy is discussed. In the end there are very few AWD cars in this genre for a reason. The DP1 http://www.dpcars.net/ uses one engine and a chain drive driving both sets of wheels. An Ultima was converted to all wheel drive by installing 2 motorcycle engines ( Hayabusa). Each engine is dedicated to a different axle. That was such a nightmare that I only recently heard the thing now moves after some 4 years of professional development. The Murtaya http://www.murtaya.com/ is a kit that uses the whole drive train of a Subura WRX as the donor. It maintains the front engine layout.

I am not saying it is not doable but the only practical way is to develop the car from the ground up around the drive train. Doing it backwards does not seem to have much history of success behind it.