Anyone got an RCR SL-C race car?

Hi guys & girls!

I just joined this great forum, and I`m loving it already :thumbsup:
At first I was put off by the fact that it`s called GT40s, but I quickly found out that the GT40 is not the only great car that`s being discussed in here. For a periode of time I did want to build a GT40 replica, but I`ve found other cars that I like even better :lipsrsealed:

I se all of this from a racing car point of view. I live in Norway and with the ultra strict rules & regulations we have for anything more inspiring than a VW beetle I have given up before even trying to get one of these cars registered for road use. That leaves me with the desire to build a hot RCR SL-C or an FFR GTM for racing use. I`ve been studying the FFR forum for about 6 months, so:

Does anyone in here own a full on race SL-C?
Yes I saw Fran`s #18 car, but I feel that that car is way beond my budget and gadgets.

I would very much like to see some pictures of some roll over cages, exhaust systems with mufflers and where to put them. Pictures of tow hooks, engine & transmission coolers, electrical cut off switches, and possibly an FIA Fuel cell would be much apriciated. Links to build logs is good too.

I would also love to hear your story, how the car drives, what can you tell about the handling (typical mid engine car/understeered/oversteered) How`s the basic brakes compared to the optional brake upgrade kit, did you have to change the MC`s when you mounted the 6-piston Brembo`s to get the right pedal feel, how much power is "too much" (yes I know there isn`t such a thing but anyway), and so on.

Looking forward to some feedback!

Thanx for reading!
 
Welcome,

This is a great site with many smart car guys/gals that will answer all your questions. I have been to Fran's shop and he is a great guy with a great crew and builds one hell of a car. If you have not already called you should give him a call.
 

Fran Hall RCR

GT40s Sponsor
Ketil,

as I mentioned in my emails to you...a race SL-C would be built to your specifics to meet the requirements of the rules and race series.
A stock SL-C with an additional cage option will make a very good track car....see here... http://www.gt40s.com/forum/rcr-forum-rcr40-slc-p4-mkiv/32048-jms-iii-slc.html
Every aspect of the SL-C suspension is adjustable and you can make the car have the driving feel you require...push/oversteer.
Race cars can get expensive and there are very few shortcuts that actually ever work....
I know you told me you are a little ways from doing anything...
spend some time looking through the SL-C logs on the forum and you will find a whole range of SL-C variants...

Enjoy and call anytime..
 
Thanx for the welcome Mark328GTS!

Thanx again Fran!
I think I`m beginning to understand the level of ability you have to customise the car for me now :thumbsup:

It`s basically 3 factors that makes me wonder if I have any chance of getting the car qualifyed for the Norwegian Race regulations. They are as you may have guessed roll cage, production numbers, and sound. I have never seen or heard of any car even remotely similar to the SL-C being qualifyed in Norway, so that`s my reason for asking all these questions.

1. I`m sure you can make an exhaust system that meets or exceeds 100dB @4500rpm @ 45` angle/1m away from the tip, but....

2. The car have to be produced in a minimum amount of 100 units (?)

3. The roll cage have to be bolted to the chassis through welded steel plates of min.3mm thickness at the end of each tubes using a minimum of 3 ea. 8.8 M8 bolts that goes through the chassis with locking washers. The mounting plates have to be a minimum of 120cm2.
NOW, that is what the rulebook say about "home made" cages, but what about an FIA aproved one ? Now that`s the big question.......

Yes a race car can very easily become WAY more expensive than a street version of the same car. I`m aiming for putting the money where it counts the most, and maybe upgrading the car with "gadgets" like suspension telemetry later.

Thanx for the link to Jim Salmo`s (dad`s) car! I read the first page, and I`m really looking forward to reading the rest.

OK, I`ll look through the forum and the Internet the next 6 months or so, and maybe I`m a bit closer to choosing between a GTM vs. SL-C. I guess I`ll be calling you way before that though Fran :laugh:

Keep`em coming guys!
 
2. The car have to be produced in a minimum amount of 100 units (?)

You might have to wait a year or two to reach that target still.

But if you're reading the FFR forums don't listen to crash's it'll cost you 300k for build an slc-r, lol lol lol.
 

Fran Hall RCR

GT40s Sponsor
Ketil,

the FIA cage design and homologation is dependent upon the class you plan to race the car in....

Sound levels are dependent upon displacement, compression ratio, power output etc etc ...

Brake systems are just such, a system so master cylinders must be balanced with caliper and rotor packages plus the required pedal system....we use an off the shelf Tilton in the race applications ...as thye are already FIA approved.

Full race calipers are very different from trackday or Hipo street packages.

We have not produced 100 units ...so this may all be for nought.

Has a Mosler,Saleen, Lola T70 Metro 6R4,Lancia Stratos, RS200 , Porsche 917 etc etc ...you get my idea ...or such ever raced in Norway...none has a 100 unit production run, but they could be used as having set a precident
 
Alex, yes I know the price difference between an all new part GTM vs. SL-C is not that big, but crash may say and think as he pleases :blank:

OK Fran, the 100 units could be a problem, but as you say many other great race cars was never produced in such high numbers either so.........
In the late 80`s and early 90`s there was this one RS200 that raced here in Norway. That was in a different class though, but maybe that could help my case.......hhhmmmm.......


The class I`m planning on attending is called GT Racing GT1.

If I choose an SL-C I`d like a bone stock LS7 because none of the Norwegian tracks favor BIG HP cars. Yes we do travel to one or 2 of Sweden`s tracks that are bigger and faster, but most of the races goes on short and twisty tracks. I think my present driving skills makes 500+ HP more than enough for at least a couple of seasons.
For reference the winning car in GT1 this year was a 997 Porsche Cup S (450HP @ 2645lb.s)
BTW, engines are free as long as it`s not from a Formula1 car and a boat engine.

Brakes are also free as long as they are a 2 circuit system. ABS gives 5% weight penalty, and the discs have to be steel if the car is not originally equipped with a different material such as ceramic and carbon.
So what you`r saying is that you supply the apropriate pedal assy. with whatever calipers the customer wants?

Suspension is also free, but ride height has to be set so that no part of the body can touch the tarmac if the air in both tires at one side is let out of them.

Well, I could go on and on with the (many times silly) rules & regulations but I`d rather check up this "100 units" isue with one or 2 of the senior racers here in Norway before I go any further on this......

Thanx again guys for participating in my thread!
 

Fran Hall RCR

GT40s Sponsor
Kertil,

a stock LS7 is not a race worthy engine....it will require modification to live as a true race engine. The dry sump system will need work , the valve springs changed, potentially the crankshaft also....a well built LS3 would be a better base for building a race engine.

Sounds like the rules are reasonably similar to FIA GT1....most race organisations follow along...SCCA certainly does her in the USA.
 
OK? We have 3 corvettes, one Studebaker, and a 69 Camaro racing LS7`s in GT1 and GT3. I guess they all are built despite the owners are calling them "stock" then....;)
Aprox. build cost of an LS3 then ? I mean dry sumped race worthy engine.

Good to hear that Norway is not the only country that have FIA derived rulebooks. Maybe I could translate the highlights and send it to you in a PM Fran?
 

Fran Hall RCR

GT40s Sponsor
Ketil,

I worked at Katech for a while and also GM racing so I can recommend a few "experts"...6 consecutive 24hr of Le Mans wins for GM in GT1......stock LS7 crankshafts fatigue during high duty cycle use, exhaust valves have issues as do stock valve springs...an LS9 oil pump upgrade is a basic step forward on a stock LS7.
Cost for a race engine...how long is a piece of string...call Katech or Thomson Automotive here locally in Detroit or your chosen engine builder...one size does not fit all...
 
Ketil,

Much of the modification is for reliability. The dry sump system needs improvement, at the very least a larger reservoir. I am using a 3 gal Peterson tank, ARE pan, Aviad external pump. I also have the LS9 internal oil pump. The valve train has been reported to fail (needles from the rocker arms) so it's good practice to change the rocker arms and springs as Fran said. I have an external oil cooler as well. Although a good dry sump design could add HP, much of this will not.
 

Pete K.

GT40s Supporter
"...ow long is a piece of string..."

oooh....ooooh... I know, I know!!!

The length of a piece of string is twice the distance from one end to the middle!

;-)
 
Thanx!

Really good info guys! I`m a Porsche nut (or I used to be) and this American muscle is a bit new to me, so please be patient :lipsrsealed:

I understand that it`s hard to state a price for a well built racing LS3, but I was hoping for some ball park figures. The main focus for me will be reliability, not max HP. I`ve seen turn key LS3`s on eBay for around $20.000,- with 600+ HP, but are they race worthy? Who knows? I shure don`t.

OK, so what would you experts suggest is the best route to go between a race prepped LS3 or LS7?
 

Fran Hall RCR

GT40s Sponsor
I have meetings with my engine builder friends this week for the "spec" race engine for the SLC-R spec car...so will drop you a PM with info later in the week.

Do you have the Ford Mercury.... Cruise 66 cool car
 
Ketil,

Despite having an LS7, I would go for a LS3. First, that expensive dry sump pan on the LS7 is now sitting in my shop replaced by the ARE, etc. So, start out at less expense and add components.
 
@ Fran: Cool! I didn`t know about the Mercury, so it has to be another Ketil who`s the lucky owner of that. MAN, I think I`ve heard about that guy!

@ Doc: The LS3 is not a dry sump engine, right? Does that mean it`s cheeper to build a dry sump system for that vs. the LS7?
 
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If you're going to be building an engine I'd shop around and see what you want out of it.

Most decent builders, from scratch, will start with an LS3 base and work from that - you'll can make more power cheaper than starting with an LS7 (again, if you're starting from scratch...if you're just after mild power/basic mods, story may be different).

For example, to sleeve a block and end up at 457 (seems to be the established largest safe displacement you can go to on a stock ls block) it'st he same thing if you use an LS3 or 7 ... except the 7 will cost more $$$$.

But like they said above, it's all about what you want. First I started with a mild LS3 engine, then decided on an LS 457, then said f-it and went to an RHS LS 502 ... mmmmm, almost 900hp, n/a, pump gas :D

Cost for a race engine...how long is a piece of string...call Katech or Thomson Automotive here locally in Detroit or your chosen engine builder...one size does not fit all...


HKE! :bow:
 
Ketil,

Despite having an LS7, I would go for a LS3. First, that expensive dry sump pan on the LS7 is now sitting in my shop replaced by the ARE, etc. So, start out at less expense and add components.

What is an ARE?

I was contemplating dry sump but went traditional wet sump just because it would be easier to plumb (i.e., find room for it)
 
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