ANZACS lest we forget !

flatchat(Chris)

Supporter
Today is a national day of rememberance for the fallen of Aussies and Kiwis that served for us in the 1st world war -1914 - 1918
We remember them and the futility of it, yet, we still participate -- I don't get it .
Wouldn't it be more appropriate to engage the polititions that authorize this kind of conflict to slog it out for us
 
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Keith

Moderator
Today is a national day of rememberance for the fallen of Aussies and Kiwis that served for us in the 1st world war -1914 - 1918
We remember them and the futility of it yet, we still participate -- I don't get it .
Wouldn't it be more appropriate to engage the politicions that authorize this kind of conflict to slog it out for us
Still participating is not futile. Sitting on your butt is.

We remember...
 

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
Chris, It started that way,but now commemorates and remembers all Aussies and KIWIS that fell for us. And are still doing so for us in Afghanistan.
Your sentiment re politicians fighting it out among themselves I agree with. But that is not going to happen. Thank Christ, can you imagine Julia fighting Osama?
She might win if she sat on him.
My Dad fought in New Guinea, and I was in the R.A.E at the time of the Vietnam
conflict, so I may be a bit biased. Not unusual for me as you know.
Sadly, my father's campaign medals were lost in the recent Queensland floods and I am told they will not issue replacements. If anyone on the forum knows of a way around this please let me know, to me that loss was the worst aspect of the floods.
 

flatchat(Chris)

Supporter
With respect to you Keith --ground slogging man power to their demise as instructed by intelligent nations is futile , except that, those (intelligent) left behind are now the nations problem.
The ANZACS were sent to Gallipoli -- as cannon fodder, while the British, directing things, were sipping tea and eating scones in another cove a safe distance away.
We're a bit dirty about that -- and don't get me started 'cause I can't type very good
 

Keith

Moderator
Oh dear, when anyone starts a conversation with the words "with respect" I know that there's some disrespect coming my way, and you haven't let me down mate.

That is an awful thing to say for the memory of two of my descendants who served in the Royal Navy Division and lost their lives in the same campaign.

Not only that, it is grossly inaccurate according to your OWN (Australian) records.

Anyway, I'm not into this jingoistic shit as WWI was a catastrophe which virtually destroyed this country and who's legacy remains to this day. You cannot find a village, a town or a city in the United Kingdom that doesn't have large memorials with hundreds, literally hundreds of local men - whole generations - over a million of them. The 1st Battle of the Somme saw over 50,000 casualties on the first day! Perspective mate - perspective.

I won't get you started mate - I'm not like that but I feel sorry that you have so much bitterness, and I forgive you.

ALL war dead are to be honoured - as they represent failed diplomacy.

Pete, I am devastated about the medals. One thing that has always puzzled me about Australians. We in the UK generally respect your outgoing 'no bullshit' approach to life - I think it's what we would like to be like if we could, but your hands seem strangely tied by the effete governments you end up with. Is this the result of 80 years of AV?

Anyway Pete, a public campaign cannot go amiss. You mean people can replace their refrigerators but not their honourably won campaign medals? SHAME!

Gallipoli casualties
Source: Australian Department of Veterans' Affairs[37]
Dead Wounded Total Total Allies 44,092 96,937 141,029 - United Kingdom 21,255 52,230 73,485 - France (estimated) 10,000 17,000 27,000 - Australia[4] 8,709 19,441 28,150 - New Zealand[4] 2,721 4,752 7,473 - British India 1,358 3,421 4,779 - Newfoundland 49 93 142 Ottoman empire (estimated) 86,692 164,617 251,309 Total (both sides) 130,784 261,554 392,338
 
Chris,

In response to you comments

.......We remember them and the futility of it, yet, we still participate -- I don't get it .
Wouldn't it be more appropriate to engage the polititions that authorize this kind of conflict to slog it out for us ........

My father was in the Second World War. He was in Cromwell Tanks, and faught all the way from Normandy, to deep into Germany. He was in the 7th Armoured Division, a frontline division, and was in combat most days

He never really spoke about it. But we do know his Tank ran over mines twice. The first time his legs were damaged in the blast, but he did get out of the tank ok, but he spent several months in hospital, before he was fit enough, to rejoin his Tank crew, as the co-driver / front machine gunner

Shortly after he rejoined, he was involved in a battle to take an Airfield, but there wasnt time for the "recce squadron", to make a good assesment, of the german gun positions, and mine fields. as they approached the airfield, they came under heavy fire from the german guns, and soon in the ..."Chaos of Battle"..., they ran over a mine. the driver (his best friend ) was killed (in their Cromwell tanks, dad and the driver were rubbing shoulders)

The 3 guys in the turret bailed out, but dad was trapped in the Hull of the tank, for about 2 hours, as the battle raged on around him. There was an escape hatch In the floor, but dad was unable to remove it......When there was a lull in the battle, the 3 guys that had bailed out, managed to free dad from the tank.....Can you imagine what went through my fathers mind, while he was trapped in the Tank.....

The next day, they had a new Tank, and were back in heavy fighting.....

The fronline troops always said...

......."If the Politicians, were doing the fighting, the war would have ended months before it did"......

If the politicians, that send people to war, actually experianced, "The True Horrors of War"....We would see an end to War, but sadly, that will never happen

I personally cannot understand, the way politicians, are so ready to send people to War......
 
Mick, have you ever been to the tank museum in Bovington, Dorset? Fascinating place! A very well spent day there a few years ago.
 
I was very impressed by both the collection and the tank course. I visited the day after Goodwood Revival in 2008. Following that there was a day spent at the Beaulieu Museum and a visit to Rod Jolley's coachbuilding shop in Lymington.
All worthy of a serious auto enthusiast and history buff.
 
we are lucky, we have some good museums

If your in England again. There is the Imperial War Museum at Droxford. it is amazing... mainly aircraft, but there is also an army part to it, tanks etc

There are literally hundreds of aircraft there. The B52 that is there will never fly again, as the runway is not long enough for it to take off from

There is a TSR2. A fighter we were developing in the 50s, but was scrapped in the early 60s for political reasons. It was basically years ahead of its time. Had it not been scrapped, we would be at the leading edge of fighter aircraft today.....( maybe the aircraft members here can tell the full story, its very intresting)

There are hangers where aircraft are being restored. One WW2 aircraft, was discovered in Australia, and must be fully restored by now..

I believe it was an American bomber / fighter base in WW2

At the NEC Birmingham there is the National Motorcycle Museum.. well worth a visit

Getting back to the original Thread. We should all be gratefull, and show Respect for all the people who have given their lives for us,

The Gallipoli Campaign cost many lives, and we should all remember the Anzacs, and other nationalities that lost there lives...A great, great uncle, of mine was killed at Gallipoli, and we recently discovered he is buried in a cemetary in Baghdad
 

flatchat(Chris)

Supporter
Good points - chaps, guess I should google statistics before rattling on-- the Population of Aus. back then was around 5 M -- so I guess the culling excercise of ANZAC diggers was high by percentage.

Granpa did WW 1&2, Dad did WW 2 and his brother didn't come back from a recon. over the English channel -- Granma was pretty pissed about that.

What's done is done and may the Intelligent World prosper from it
 

Keith

Moderator
Amen Chris, but i fear it will never change - it's what men do whatever their hue or origins. There is an extremely sad fact that following no less than two "Wars to End All Wars" for example, that there has only been ONE SINGLE DAY since 1945 that a British Soldier was NOT killed somewhere on active service.

That's both astonishing and not a bit disgraceful..... :uneasy:
 
Keith's quite right in the context of Gallipoli, and so is Chris.

On V & W beaches, the casualties were horrendous. Only exceeded by other actions later on. As well as "6 VCs before breakfast", some units had casualties exceeding 60% within 15 minutes of landing. In most, the officer casualties were over 90% and in one unit (dubliners?), not a single officer was not a casualty within one hour of landing.

On the other hand, from Y beach, the landing point showing one of the few superb pieces of planning throughout the entire campaign, the town of Krithia was completely open to English troops, who malingered on the clifftop before they wandered back to their landing point and took it upon themselves to return to the ships. Krithia was never captured, despite attempts to do so costing over 30,000 lives.

None of which diminishes the efforts of the French & Indians, who seem largely left out of the commemorations, or the brilliance of elements like the one man diversion that held up a division for long enough to allow a toehold to be gained.

Of course there are other moments, the disastrous Suvla landing, the shameful diversion at The Nek, which saw over 600 casualties in an area the size of a tennis court in 15 minutes, which live on as infamous examples of where leadership becomes a case of knowing when to stop, rather than carry on regardless.

Incidentally, there were a number of politicians involved in the campaign, one each from Australia, New Zealand and an Englishman from memory. It was probably the last occasion in which politicians deigned to submit themselves to such hazards......

In the modern age we are fortunate that though we may follow in the footsteps of these men, we shall never again be treated with disdain as individuals such as the Breaker, or as a force such as at Anzac.

In this way, their sacrifice will never be in vain.
 
I like to think we are honouring the people and great deeds and sacrifice by them, not the damn wars themselves.
My wife grew up in New Guinea and the Solomon Islands where her father spent his life helping the indigenous people. During the war, while he was travelling away from his family and home, he received word that the Japanese were landing on New Guinea, and he immediately ran for over eight hours along precipitous mountain terrain near the Kokoda track to get back to the women and children and get them away safely. He doesn't normally talk about it, but his tales of hopping back to Australia under cover of darkness as far as possible each night in a small boat are fascinating. Having got the family and others to safety, he returned at the request of the Allies to act as an intelligence agent because of his local knowledge and ability to speak at least five of the languages fluently. While I was playing cowboys and Indians as a kid, my future wife grew up playing Australians and Japanese!

War brings out such extremes of good and evil. Medals are a small reminder of the good, and I feel your loss, Pete. Hope that a scheme can be found for replacing them.
 

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
Thanks Dalton, I am told that they can only be issued to the person who won them not his Kinsfolk. Fair enough, but it is a bit hard to issue medals to someone who is deceased. I'm talking to the R.S.L. about it. I'll keep you posted.
 
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