Cheap Transaxle

[Dylan]

Hi all. Im new to the forum. I have been thinking about getting a GT40 kit car for years, and I might end up with one this weekend. (The guy said it is a fiberfab gt15/gt40 kit car) This forum appears to be a huge resource, and I spent quite a chunk of time browsing it already, but I figured I would ask you experts before I made a mistake.

I am looking for a cheap transaxle that will mount up to a 260, 289, or 302 small block ford. Horsepower would be around 300.

When I say cheap, I mean like 1000 or under. I have access to a machine shop to do all fabrication, but I am in college and I have a shoestring budget for this.

Now, I have a Porsche 944 transaxle my friend gave me, but I did not see any posts about those being used in kit cars. Is this usable?

Any information would be extremely helpful, as I am not up on transaxles or foreign cars in general, and I am way over my head.

Thanks,

Dylan

 

[jyrki sulka]

Hi, welcome

When you are building low cost gt-replica, or any mid engined car, transaxle-costs are headache...
You can get cheap (under 1000$) ones like UN1, VAG 016 etc, they maybe survive 1000kg / 400nm punishment, but if you want good one, cost are about X 10.

Porsche 944 trans is familiar from FWD Audi`s etc. Type, i think, is 016. 944 Turbo box have stronger internals. And from Porsche, there -can- be pleasant surprise inside; diffirential brake :thumbsup:

Your freebie box is usable if it is in running order. Adapters are for sale sometimes, or put want-to-buy -advert

 

[AdrianBurton]

Dylan,

Welcome to our obsession. The problem with the 944 box is that it has no clutch provisions, you should be able to get a 016 from the 84-88 audi for around $3-500, if you dont abuse it you could just use as is (if it is good) and upgrade later.

Adrian

 

[Dylan]

Thanks for the tips. Jyrki, would you be able to point me in the direction of some adapters?

I do have access to a full machine shop, so maybe adapting a bellhousing to the 944 transaxle myself would be the way to go? Just use a ford bellhousing with clutch and adapt it on?

And if I am looking for an 016 out of an audi from junkyards, is it in all 84-88 audis? What model am I looking for, if not?

Thanks much,

Dylan

 

[Eric]

i think you very well could make an adapter to bolt the 944 gearbox to any engine you want and make the space for a clutch, but the starter motor location would be a concern as well since it doesn't provide for that either. from what i've read, it would also need to be made from a very thick piece of aluminum in order to fit a clutch designed for the ford engine.

from what i've seen, the audi 016 gearbox is in the audi 5000, so look for any of those in the junkyards. that's what i'm using for my early prototype car.

 

[Bram Boekestein]

Hi Dylan,

Audi 016 transaxle's come from a Audi 100, 200 and 5000. Best ratio's are from a 5000 turbo.

I have a audi 016 AAX in my garage you could buy, since they're hard to find in the US. For $300 you can have it, since I won't be needing it for a long time.
I do live in Europe, so shipping can be expensive comparing to the transaxle price.

Adapters can be bought from Kennedy Engineering, but they are very expensive. But if you're competent you can make it yourself if you have acces to a mill.

If you're interested, mail or PM me.

Greetz,

Bram Boekestein
Holland

 

[jyrki sulka]

Dylan,

I bought SBF-016 adaptor from Gox Teknik, Strömstad - Sweden.


I serviced few Porsches 944 / turbo years ago, and if i remember right, construction was with empty bellhousing blocked with plate + torque tube. Maybe not impossible add clutch systems to Porsche from 016. Input shaft maybe a problem too.
Not sure, i hate(d) to work things without oval...

 

[andys]

Dylan,

You can also consider a Porsche 901 (from a 914). Most that use them either remove or avoid using 1st gear; it's the weak point. Otherwise, it's good to 300/300 HP/TQ and there are many 914 V8 conversion running around successfully with this transaxle. To optimize the ratios for V8 applications, they simply switch and flip 4th and 5th gearsets. Axles and CV's are also plentiful.

Andy

 

[Terry Oxandale]

While we're on this subject, let me throw this out for discussion. My observations are that the 944 turbos, and even with an LSD are pretty common, and I've been told the 968 transmission is bigger and better than the 924/944 versions (much better bearings, synchros, and larger parts), but I've not visually verified if this is true, but do trust my source of information. On the other hand, the Audi boxes are pretty rare for the one I'm looking for.

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Anyway, my thoughts are to drill a short 12mm hole in the end of the 924/44/68 input shaft (these boxes have no pilot bearing provision, and I'm not even sure they require one) to accept a custom pilot bushing that would have a protrusion that would fit into this drilled hole. This would then space the transmission out about 50mm behind the block because of this transmission's extended input shaft length. Yes, one could disassemble the tranny, turn a pilot bushing surface on the end of a shortened shaft, and reassemble, but my goal is to use the transmission as unchanged as is possible (bolt-on if possible with minimal work).

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If, and this is a big if, the 944 turbo 240mm clutch disc fits well under the Ford OEM 10 inch pressure plate, then this arrangement (adapter and special pilot bushing if needed) will allow the use of the OEM Ford flywheel, starter, and pressure plate. My thoughts are to use an OEM bellhousing to fabricate the 50mm (just a guess on that dimension at this point) adapter to the 944/924/968 transaxles.

For me, the Audi transaxles are tough to come by. I'm sure in future years the current generation will become more numerous in salvage, but it seems the new cars are all automatics. It appears the 924/944/968 manual transaxles are found just about anywhere.
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[Bram Boekestein]

Porsche transaxle's aren't rare, they just get bought up by those big rebuilders and then sold for 6k or so. Look at www.v-zweeden.com.
Audi 016 transaxle's proboarly will be rare in the US (contrary to europe) since these come from audi's from the 1980's to 1990. There is a chance 01e transaxle's will get easier to find, since they come from newer cars, to 1997. But they are pretty rock solid in stock Audi's otherwise we won't we using them behind a SBF.

On you porsche mod idea I can't help, I have no experience with them.

Greetz,

Bram Boekestein
Holland

 

[Dylan]

Wow thanks for all of the info guys.

I checked local junkyards, no luck with older audi transaxles and the 2 newer ones I found are way out of my price range.

Terry, thanks for the input, thats actually what I went and measured for last night. I am actually thinking of taking out the input shaft from the transaxle, cutting it, and welding on one from a ford transmission, allowing me to use a ford clutch. I work at a manufacturing facility and have cheap access to heat treat ovens, so it should hold up fine if I can get it concentric. AND, if I chop up the ford bellhousing and get the thickness correct, I won't have to space it out using custom pilot bushings or anything.

I have heard of people doing this to adapt newer 5 or 6 speeds to their muscle cars, and they do not even heat treat them. The only case where I've heard of one breaking is in a 400+ horsepower Nova.

Thoughts?

 

[Wayne M.]

I have a couple pic your own part salvage yards that I check. I keep finding the 012 trans but not the 016 yet, but Im still looking. They get $100 but you have to pull it out yourself. Im working on getting an 012 onto the back of a SBF.

 

[Dave P]

Here is a link I used to find my transaxle search 1985 AUDI 5000 when it asks 5N

MyPartShop.com - Used Car Part Search from Hollander a Solera Company

 

[GTPVette]

Dylan,,,
I've got a Audi 016-AFC,,, don't want to ship it though. If you are in South Florida I could cut you a deal.

Thanks

 

[Dylan]

Im sorry, I live in Connecticut.

Not much here in the northeast for parts/cars! :veryangry:

 

[Cliff Beer]

The audi 016 transaxle doesn't seem that difficult to find here in the US - you might have to look for a german car recycler locally rather than just any old junkyard. However, the 944-based 016 with LSD seems to be considerably more difficult to find, and, a lot more expensive. The audi 016 w/o LSD goes for anywhere between $100 and $500 whereas the 944-based 016 (S or Turbo) with LSD is more like $1,000.

Does anyone happen to know if the LSD from a 944-based 016 will fit an audi 016??

 

[Al Jones]

Try Tom's foreign auto parts in Waterbury/Watertown(800-255-6656) or Bill's in the Bristol/Terryville area. Underpass Auto in Wallingford(203-235-7283), Chuck and Eddie's (203-777-8868)New Haven and Southington or Elm City(203-865-4995) in New Haven occasionally get some older models in.If all that doesn't work there's a yard in the Auburn Mass area,Rt 16 Auto, I think.They have a bunch of stuff and will send it down by truck.I'll get the specific address if you need it. I'm in Cheshire. A.J.

 

[Dylan]

Thanks, AJ, I'll try them tomorrow. I have a 944 transaxle, the guy that gave it to me says it was out of a turbo car. How do I find out if it is the beefier transaxle? I dont think i believe him

 

[Pete T]

Did any of you do a search of the forum? There is all of the information that you are looking for along with my comaprison article.

The non-turbo 944 transaxle is identicle to the AUDI 016 except thet the provision for a pilot bearing is not there and the provision for the clutch slave cylinder and fork is not there. You could use a hydraulic T/O bearing possibly and the idea about the hole in the shaft sounds like a possibility. You do not need to spend the $$$ on the 944 turbo disk. You just need to look at Ford and Chrysler discs with 1" 23 spline. They will work just fine. The early 944 has a 3.89 final drive. The turbo had a 3.375 final drive and the late non-turbo has a 3.875 final drive. Both the late 944 and turbo have a larger diameter ring gear and a larger front pinion bearing. The larger gear allowed for wider gear teeth and much increased strength. No AUDI 016 has this. The turbo-S transaxle is the strongest one because the gears and shafta are shot peened. The differential for the turbo is interchangable with the other 016 transaxles. However, you likely will not ever find a used one. They are much sought after. There is a guy that has found a late AUDI OEM Torsen that can be easily modified to fit into an 016. I should also say that the bellhousing mounting pattern is the same between the Porsche and AUDI.

The 6 spd (01E) is a good transaxle as far as I have been told. It has many of the updates from the 944 turbo transaxle including the larger ring gear and front pinion bearing. Although the ratios many say do not fit with a v8 very well. The AUDI version has some updates that the Porsche ones do not have. The biggest is first gear. The later AUDI 01E's have a wider 1st gear because of some failures (stripped teeth) on turbo cars.

The 944 non turbo 016, early or late, has a mostly useless first gear. (13.97 early and 13.95 late overall ratio)

This is all that comes to mind right now.

 

[Howard Jones]

Why don't you trade the Porsche for the Audi. Shouldn't be too hard to do. Check out some Porsche/Audi wrecking yards or even a Forum with Audi and Porche people on it. There are more Audi GT40 than any other trans-axle type with the Renault's being very close in numbers. The 016 Audi is the one you want and it is pretty common. It will work very well with a SBF at 300HP and all the adapter stuff is available. Kennedy engineering here in the USA can provide all you need along with others like California Motorsports and Carquip. BTW it's going to cost you about $500 to ship a gearbox from Europe to the USA and that's about what they are worth in used/working condition.

Good luck on your new hobbie.