Columbus Ohio RCR40

I like #3, but there is a concern.

The return will be a little unpredictable if you just Y it and unless you add a diverter valve to put it back into the tank you're pulling from, or just return to the primary and have some electronics to shut the secondary tank pump off when the primary tank is full. If not and you have 3/4 tank in both and forget and leave the secondary on, you could overfill the primary to the point it's burping out. A simple float switch and relay can handle this.

But having 2 jockey pumps, one from each tank to the swirl pot is my preference once you eliminate the overfilling issue.

I'll be welding my own swirl pot, so I'll just include a 5th port and level sender and eliminate the check valves. For that matter, I'm using Bosch 044 pumps and I'm pretty sure they have an integral check valve.
I share your concern with the return line. I really want to avoid worrying about overfilling a tank as you pointed out. Still thinking about an exact solution... I agree a float switch will do it, good idea.

Do you have a part # for the 044 pumps? The bosch pumps I am finding are twice as expensive as the Walbro pump I found.
An integrated check valve would be nice. Should also work to keep one pumps from filling the other tank other than the swirl pot.
 
I like 1, basic 2 pump system with a Pollack valve. With any of these, what controls the level in the surge tank and what tells the surge tank to return to the main tank and what drives that?
Agreed. currently my front runner.

In my mind nothing is wrong with letting a return line from the surge tank connect to whichever tank is being drawn from. I plan to just have the return line port connect at the very top of the surge tank so it is only used when needed.
 

Brian

Supporter

Sorry for the long polluted link. The outlet fitting is a bit unique, but it works great with a banjo fitting.

The raised rib make it an excellent choice for mounting semi internal. I machined an aluminum mount that will weld into the tanks where a top ring, an O ring, and the raised rib will mount and seal it with a sock on the bottom.

This listing shows what I'll be making.

 

Ian Anderson

Lifetime Supporter
Supporter
I like 1, basic 2 pump system with a Pollack valve. With any of these, what controls the level in the surge tank and what tells the surge tank to return to the main tank and what drives that?

Hi David
The idea of a swirl is to constantly move fuel from tank to swirl and a constant overflow from swirl back to tank (This return is always from the highest point on the swirl thus removing any bubbles back to the main tank)

The return line should be able to flow the same as the feed line (No restriction)

Ian
 
I like the keep it simple stupid approach. I had the driver side tank modified to install an in tank aeromotive pump with its own reservoir and check valves ( eliminates the need for a swirl pot or other type of external reservoir of fuel). The passenger side tank simply has a low pressure pump that will transfer fuel to the driver side when needed. I disagree with the idea of redundancy, it’s a car not a plane. How many fuel pumps does your daily driver use? I originally had it setup in a more complex manner and then saw someone else do it this way so I promptly reworked mine with the simpler solution.
 
When do you think the car will be done at RCR? I hear they are backed up with orders!!!
They told me this October when I ordered but I still have not heard from them... I was expecting a delay especially with supply chain nightmares but definitely hopeful to start this winter still...
 
Status update. Planning slowed down a lot. It was a busy summer with work and getting married lol.
When I could I've been thinking more about the fuel system, electrical system, and most recently the engine lubrication system.

Fuel system:
A lot of smart people had some good input on the different options I posted awhile ago. I am considering a 5th option now... I am already going to have a pretty powerful computer onboard (Holley dominator) so it wouldn't be that hard to let the computer turn on and off a transfer pump to a main tank... I am weary of the "pollock" valve solution as it requires a lot more plumbing and I can't for the life of me get any confirmation on the restriction of it. Not out of the question, but currently I am liking the idea of running fuel level sensors that can communicate with the ECU. The sensors that come with the kit are 240-33 ohm but the circuit that outputs a variable resistance according to fuel level is designed to have a relatively high current draw. (Like from a needle gauge). I was concerned about how the sensor will react to a lower current draw of the ECU. I got ahold of a really nice engineer at Centroid and we discussed the matter. We decided it was best to run a similar level sensor but one that simply outputs a 0-5V signal. My ECU should have no problems working with that. This solution presents a new challenge... The needle gauges that come with the kit are meant to work with the 240-33 ohm senders... So maybe I have to have 2 sensors in each tank. Not exactly ideal. More thinking to do here. But if I get a good signal to the ECU it will be simple to have it control a transfer pump to keep it full of fuel. This way I can't be a dummy and forget to turn off the transfer pump... but of course it is very tempting to keep this solution as simple as possible and just do the semi-common method of a single transfer pump manual switch.

Electrical system:
I am very weary of letting even a drop of electrical noise get to my sensors or ECU. A very very broad initial schematic I have planned is below. I will ground the block with a clean ground straight from the battery. And then on a different location also ground it to the chassis. This should hopefully set a foundation for clean grounds. I just then also have to be careful with all grounds from inductive loads... certainly every fan. It is crazy how much EMI those ground wires can produce. Assuming I end up running a DBW TB this is an even larger concern.
Just in case the ECU main power goes straight to the battery posts so the battery can be a last attempt to clean up any noise.
Lots more work to do here. I am a big data geek so there will be lots of sensors and wiring to do... I want the ECU to be able to monitor a large majority of the car. Everything from fuel temp/pressure to tire temp.

1662517543515.png


Engine Oiling system:
I recently have been getting more serious about what to do for the oiling system on the engine. I learned recently that I didn't do enough homework on the rest of the engine when I built the drivetrain to rev out to 7500 rpm (dumb). The stock LS oil pump will reportedly begin to cavitate at 6000 rpm... This fact pretty much makes a dry sump a requirement in my case. Of course that is on top of the well documented issues the stock wet sump system has with oil starvation during performance driving. I have started looking at a Aviaid dry sump kit as a result. The kit is so cool, and provides a new 3/8" port on the adapter plate that bolts to where the original oil filter would mount. (it comes with a remote in line oil filter mount). This way I can relocate the oil pressure sensor and monitor how the oil is doing prior to getting to the block. This would be a combo sensor, pressure and temperature outputs. Right after the oil filter would be the oil cooler... it would be neat to also grab oil temperature here with another sensor to see how effective the cooler is... but maybe overkill. very broad and crappy schematic below. This is assuming I go with a dual scavenge and single pump stage kit. I can get a oil cooler kit that comes with a thermostat switch to control the fan... but I like the idea more of letting the ECU monitor things and control the fan accordingly...

1662518530442.png
 
It was a really big day today as we got our car picked up!!
We were so excited we couldn't help but leave Columbus at 5am to show up a little after 9am. Fran joked around saying "You're not excited at all, I can tell" lol.

The car is home and we happily dug into it and all the parts (while trying to balance family thanksgiving prep).
It looks awesome and we couldn't be happier.

Our enclosed trailer is not a traditional car hauler, and honestly pretty small. Admittedly I was nervous about how the car would fit despite confirming ahead of time with measurements. Eventually we plan to install +2 flares and with them installed there should be only an inch on either side at the doorway. It is tight but we can make it work. Anyways as you can imagine it was a relief to see the car go in the trailer.

Upon getting home we finished going through the packing list and confirming parts, so now the next step is to set suspension/ride height. After that we will tear the car down to the frame and start fitting body panels/firewall. Also on the short list is to get the transaxle some more support , probably by throwing the engine in temporarily.

Got talked out of camping out in the car with a sleeping bag tonight...
 

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Vinny P

Supporter
It was a really big day today as we got our car picked up!!
We were so excited we couldn't help but leave Columbus at 5am to show up a little after 9am. Fran joked around saying "You're not excited at all, I can tell" lol.

The car is home and we happily dug into it and all the parts (while trying to balance family thanksgiving prep).
It looks awesome and we couldn't be happier.

Our enclosed trailer is not a traditional car hauler, and honestly pretty small. Admittedly I was nervous about how the car would fit despite confirming ahead of time with measurements. Eventually we plan to install +2 flares and with them installed there should be only an inch on either side at the doorway. It is tight but we can make it work. Anyways as you can imagine it was a relief to see the car go in the trailer.

Upon getting home we finished going through the packing list and confirming parts, so now the next step is to set suspension/ride height. After that we will tear the car down to the frame and start fitting body panels/firewall. Also on the short list is to get the transaxle some more support , probably by throwing the engine in temporarily.

Got talked out of camping out in the car with a sleeping bag tonight...
Looking good Nick! Enjoy the build!
 

Randy V

Moderator-Admin
Staff member
Admin
Lifetime Supporter
Congratulations!
When setting the suspension ride height, don’t forget that you will need to get your caster, camber and toe settings roughed in before you start dialing in the body positions…
 

Chris Kouba

Supporter
When setting the suspension ride height, don’t forget that you will need to get your caster, camber and toe settings roughed in before you start dialing in the body positions…
I would go so far as to say it should be truly aligned before starting any body location work. Get your wheel positions squared up, set your wheelbase, toe, ride height, etc... Having the wheels and tires in their correct locations is critical to avoiding lots of work later- like tires rubbing on wheel wells in compression or hitting the sills when adding steering lock. It has all happened.

And congrats!
 

Neil

Supporter
I would go so far as to say it should be truly aligned before starting any body location work. Get your wheel positions squared up, set your wheelbase, toe, ride height, etc... Having the wheels and tires in their correct locations is critical to avoiding lots of work later- like tires rubbing on wheel wells in compression or hitting the sills when adding steering lock. It has all happened.

And congrats!
...and adjusting all that is much easier when the body is off.
 
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