Cooling setup

[Alex]

I think this is the best way to run the cooling setup as I'm basically copying what I did with my cobra, but I wanted to get your guys' thoughts.

*remote expansion tank = Moroso 63656 - Moroso Cooling System Expansion Tanks - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Basically

1.5'' stainless piping from the engine to the bottom ports in the radiator

1/4'' npt top driver port in radiator is plugged

top passenger port has -8 line going from radiator to remote expansion tank

remote expansion tank has -10 line going form bottom of it to heater-out port on waterpump

top of remote expansion/fill tank goes to bottom of puke tank

Remote expansion/fill tank is mounted on firewall; puke tank is mounted at the highest point in the cooling system

 

[Cam]

Do you have the steam line factored in from the block?

 

[Alex]

Do you have the steam line factored in from the block?

What's the steam line? I'm not running heater or a/c or anything like that if it's related to it?

Only things comign from the block that are coolant related I think are coolant in (waterpump), coolant out (water pump), heater in (for remote expansion tank fill), then cap heater out?

 

[Ruth]

What's the steam line? I'm not running heater or a/c or anything like that if it's related to it?

Only things comign from the block that are coolant related I think are coolant in (waterpump), coolant out (water pump), heater in (for remote expansion tank fill), then cap heater out?

Here's how I understand it. If any air gets into the system. . . and it is apparently inevitable that it will. . . the air will move and probably settle in the block, subsequently preventing coolant from cooling the block. The steam line is plumbed to the expansion tank and if it is located higher than the block, the steam line will carry the air to the expansion tank where it is harmless.

 

[Will Campbell]

What's the steam line? I'm not running heater or a/c or anything like that if it's related to it?

Only things comign from the block that are coolant related I think are coolant in (waterpump), coolant out (water pump), heater in (for remote expansion tank fill), then cap heater out?

You shouldn't cap the heater out- the LS engines need to complete the circuit. So either just run a small loop from in to out, or use it to run through the heater coil in the AC unit-- don't tell me you don't need heat in the Great White North?

You may want to consider using the Dorman expansion tank that RCR has been using for some time on the SLCs. It has a port for the steam lines (the hard lines attached to the heads on the front of the engine), allows for heater plumbing pass-through, and also has a port for the radiator overflow. You can contact Fran or any of the usual SLC builders for the part number.

This is a proven solution that seems to work well, at the track and on the street.

Don't skip on the steam lines, as they are effective in evacuating air and steam from the heads so they run at the design temps. You can use just the front two, or even plumb all 4 as I am planning to do. Kurt Urban makes a nice kit for managing all 4 steam lines if you want to go all out.

 

[Alex]

So it's slightly different than plumbing an sbf .... booooo

No heater/ac here .... using my diagram if I fill from the remote expansion tank to the heater in, I would have to cap heater out because, well, there's nowhere to loop it, lol.

Regrading the steam lines, interesting, didn't know about that 'feature' with ls engines. Would it be sufficient to run the 4 steam lines into the remote expansion tank? So basically weld on an adapter into it with 4 an fittings that connect to the steam ports?

 

[Doc Kaler]

Alex,

Tapping into the expansion tank is acceptable routing of the steam tubes.

 

[Jack]

I concur. Using the Dorman tank you may eliminate both the expansion tank and the overflow tank. The Dorman tank has provision for both. Dorman #603-200

 

[Wayne]

The Dorman tank installed.

 

[Cam]

But the Moroso can looks sooo cool in the back glass!

 

[Allan]

Here's how I plumbed it with a Canton tank.

Out of the heater port on the water pump, into the T at the bottom of the tank, out the other side of the T and from there to the heater core then back from the heater core into the larger port on the water pump.
The steam port from the front of the heads goes up to the upper port on the expansion tank.

 

[Les]

And, by the way, Alex, I am glad that

the version of your CAD program is the exact same as the version of my CAD Program!

Bassanio et Portia

 

[Dave]

Still looks better than Google sketchup

 

[Alex]

Here's how I plumbed it with a Canton tank.


Out of the heater port on the water pump, into the T at the bottom of the tank, out the other side of the T and from there to the heater core then back from the heater core into the larger port on the water pump.
The steam port from the front of the heads goes up to the upper port on the expansion tank.

2 questions about your setup

1 - if you didn't have a heater core (?is that something to do w/ heat and/or a/c?), would you have then T'd the bottom of the Canton tank into the heater in and heater out on the engine directly then? Or would you have capped one of them (e.g., line from Canton to heater in, cap heater out).

2 - Where is your bleed line to the top of the radiator? Are you going to weld another fitting near the top of the Canton tank for this, or merge it with the steamline fitting?

3 - Where do you plan on sticking your puke tank? There arn't too many places that are equal to or higher than the remote fill/expansion tank?

 

[Allan]

2 questions about your setup

1 - if you didn't have a heater core (?is that something to do w/ heat and/or a/c?), would you have then T'd the bottom of the Canton tank into the heater in and heater out on the engine directly then? Or would you have capped one of them (e.g., line from Canton to heater in, cap heater out).

2 - Where is your bleed line to the top of the radiator? Are you going to weld another fitting near the top of the Canton tank for this, or merge it with the steamline fitting?

3 - Where do you plan on sticking your puke tank? There arn't too many places that are equal to or higher than the remote fill/expansion tank?

1. Without the heater core thats in the ac/heating unit the line that would go out to the heater core would just go back to the inlet on the water pump. 5/8" in to the T then 3/4" out of the T to the inlet of the water pump.

2. The bleed line from the radiator could T into the steam vent from the heads that go into the exp. tank or you could just manually bleed the radiator once in awhile with the petcocks that are already in there.

3. The Canton expansion tank is the highest point in the system. If you want an overflow bottle then a simple bottle would go anywhere below the exp. tank. It does not need to be above the exp. tank.

 

[Jac Mac]

It would help a lot if Alex would just put the arrowheads in the direction of flow, going by that drawing the only thing I can see is an awful lot of problems.

 

[Alex]

1. Without the heater core thats in the ac/heating unit the line that would go out to the heater core would just go back to the inlet on the water pump. 5/8" in to the T then 3/4" out of the T to the inlet of the water pump.

2. The bleed line from the radiator could T into the steam vent from the heads that go into the exp. tank or you could just manually bleed the radiator once in awhile with the petcocks that are already in there.

3. The Canton expansion tank is the highest point in the system. If you want an overflow bottle then a simple bottle would go anywhere below the exp. tank. It does not need to be above the exp. tank.

Gotcha, thanks.

Btw, I always thought the overflow bottle should be around the highest point in the system?

 

[Alex]

I've opted to copy Cam's setup - I Alex'd myself into a box by anticipating all the cooling stuff would go on the passenger side, so the Dorman is out.

Basically doing his setup, except I'll run the steam lines into the upper port on the Moroso expansion tank, then weld in a -8 fitting onto the top on the other side for the radiator bleed line.

 

[Howard Jones]

Mount the puke tank low and behind the rear tires. If you have a breather tank also mount it at the back of the car and behind the rear tires.

Why? If either the puke tank overflow (big overheat) or crankcase vent tank filled up(blown motor or something venting a lot of oil) you don't want the waste products on the tires.

 

[Howard Jones]

I was at work when I saw this post the first time and the drawing did not open on my work computer. So here's what is see:

1. The expansion tank must only have one source. I have seen it done a lot of ways but the one that has made the most sense to me and is the way I have seen it done on more than one mid engine car including mine is as follows.

One single AN 8 or 10 line T'ed from the return or cooled side of the main coolant pipe returning from the radiator to the bottom of the expansion tank. I have welded on a bung and then fitted a AN 8 to .5 pipe fitting in it on the pipe right below the expansion tank. (See pic)

2. At least one air bleed line AN-3 or 4 from the top of the radiator back to the side of the expansion tank. I put the bung for it in the top 20% of expansion tank height and used two fittings (one on each side) on top of the radiator tanks T'ed together and running back to it. This will bleed air from the radiator all the time back to the highest point on the cars coolant system, the expansion tank.

3. Air can still be trapped in the engine, at least SBF's and SBC's, and must be allowed to bleed back to the expansion tank also. I used the rear of the intake manifold (highest points in the engine) to vent the air from. (see pic of SBC) My SBF is done he same way in my GT40. If LS series engines are different in this respect then some one will let us know.

4. I have not used a heater. BUT it seams like a very good place to trap air. Especially if it is high up in the car and it has long hoses. (above the water pump is high in my book) If you have air in the water after doing it my way, with a heater in the car, then that's where it is coming from. Vent it too if you have to, like the radiator, with a separate small line from the top of the heater core back to the header tank. That's what it is after all a little radiator. Otherwise plum the heater normally without regard to the self bleed system.

Lastly I have been told that thermostat's will "pull air out of the water at high flow rates". Especially in very long systems like in a mid engine car. The high quality high flow thermostat's might be worth looking into. I use a restrictor plate, in my SBF, instead. (plate with a 5/8 hole in it).

You should now have every high point in the coolant system vented back to the header (expansion) tank and continually pumping air back to the air pocket below the fill cap where it belongs.