Ford Engine Basics

Ok Chaps,
I have to come out of the closet and say that if you cut me in half that I am a Chevy guy.(don't shoot) But the problem is I really like the GT40 body and history. I would not consider building a GT40 with a chevy so have to get up to speed with the latest developments and techniques, choices etc

I have spent the last few day trolling this archive and using the searches but have not found something that addresses what i am looking for.

SOooo, what I am looking for is some links, pointers & resources to sample engine builds, dyno tests etc to help me make the decision on what spec to build my perfect engine.

I look forward to changing my view of F.O.R.D from Found On Road Dead to First On Race Day. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Dave,
Check out people like www.airflowresearch.com & www.compcams.com just for a few starters maybe? Also, speak to Paul Thompson here on the forum. IMO Paul is the man when it comes to sorting ignition and such for engine.

Brett

 

[Peter Delaney]

Hi Dave,

In reality, with a '40 coming in at around 1100kg, it really doesn't matter - you will get a thrill with a stock small block.

The trick is to run like hell & get it registered, then go for the big hp afterwards.

The big issue will be whether you can get a s/b registered in the UK at all (emissions, etc). Tighter standards here in Oz have killed the s/b - now it is the 4.6 or nothing (at least from Ford).

Just go for it, & do it yesterday !

Kind Regards,

Peter D.

 

[Simon]

Dave ,

If you're interested in buying an engine complete, you could try these guys... http://www.enginefactory.com/
With the strength of the £, even with import duty they seem to come out as a good deal. (some nice stroker motors on their site too)

Simon

 

[Simon]

[ QUOTE ]

The big issue will be whether you can get a s/b registered in the UK at all (emissions, etc). Tighter standards here in Oz have killed the s/b - now it is the 4.6 or nothing (at least from Ford).


[/ QUOTE ]

Blimey is that right?
Over here we can get away with using older blocks (pre '84 I think) but I guess that'll change soon when the government realise what a threat a couple of hundred GT40's are to climate change..... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Do you have to go for new blocks in Aus?
Simon

 

[Keith]

As a matter of interest, what is your past history with Chevrolet? Yes, that is a 600hp Chevy small block to the left thinly disguised as a Chevette.

 

surely there must be a provision somewhere deep within the koyoto protocol. oh that's right, only the chicoms can have unlimited registration of '40's... we're bad people, we're bad people...

 

[Mike Dozier]

Dave

The good news is that unlike 20 years ago, there is now
plenty of parts and information about making the sbf go.
You can pretty much make whatever power/torque your
budget can afford. Key is to be realistic about what
the intended use for the car will be....a race engine
really is no fun on the street. Best of luck.

MikeD

 

[Howard Jones]

Up to about 400hp you can use a Audi, about 1K$ all in, clutch, adapter,etc, but as you begin to near 500hp the gearbox will cost you as much as the engine. Also remember you will need to cool it. These cars have issues with heat. Not only water temp but under hood heat and interior heat.

IMHO 400 hp is really a LOT of power in these cars. Mine is about 350 and it is like riding a superbike. Major power oversteer at will. More that 450hp or so will really be a major increase in engineering to get it all to work and be reliable. Spend your money on a LSD and brakes instead of that last 100hp.

 

[Peter Delaney]

Simon, yes things are getting really tough down here. Our state (NSW) is the worst with all Individually Constructed Vehilces (ICV's) being considered totally "new" cars & as such have to meet the current emissions standards at time of rego. The only concession we get is no crash tests !

My car was probably the last s/b to make it thru the old ADR 37/01 rules (ended Dec 03) - emissions got halved for the next set of rules (ADR 79/00) thru till Dec 04, & I think that it has got worse again this year - equivalent to Euro 2.

Nobody thought we could get my s/b past 37/01 with 8-stacks, but my engineer had different thoughts. He specified AFR heads, Tickford cam, & wanted the injectors to be mounted on the insides of the throtttle bodies (that was a challenge). After about 5 runs on dynos, we just scraped through. The chances of more than halving the emissions to meet the new standards is just about zero !

Other states in Oz have more sensible rules - a rolling 5 year window where any stock engine & stock ECU setup from a car less than 5 years old is deemed to meet the rules - no testing required (lucky buggers) !

But the writing is on the wall - the s/b is basically dead here. I believe that both RF & DRB have modified their chassis to accommodate the huge 4.6 & that a few are now on the road. The Cobra fraternity have moved to Gen III or Lexus engines for the same reasons.

Bureaucracy is just such fun !! The stupid thing is that because my old Vette was built before 1972, it doesn't have to meet any emissions standards at all - when she gets back on the road (late this year, I hope), I just have to meet the basic safety rules & with its new 454, it will be churning out more emissions than all the GT40's in Oz put together !!

Go figure !

Kind Regards,

Peter D.

 

Cheers Lads,
I have looked at all the links and it is giving me a lot to think about. Your right about being practical with the engine, although with todys engine management techniques you can get away with much more radical combinations than you could 10 years ago. I will have to spend some times searching the archives on cooling set-ups.

With regards to SVA the block has to be pre 1975 to qualify for visual smoke check. I was worried about this when I put the caterham through. I used a Emerald ECU that we mapped on the Rolling Road. David Walker and Carl at emerald created two maps one for power and the second to pass emmissions. Running with a lambda,closed loop and the Cat we managed to get emmissions to 0HCs at Idle and the 4,000 Rpm test cycle. After the test I was able to take replace the cat with a 4 into 2 into1 collector and upload the power map. Only about an hour of work. Of course this was only for testing purposes. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[colin artus]

One point with regard to these engines in the UK; You can run a higher comp ratio than would normally be used in the States. Our fuel has a much better RON than is common over there (Shell Optimax is close to 100 RON) which allows for quite high ratios. I would think 11.0 to 1 fine, I have run up to 12.5 to 1 on super unleaded with a head giving a VE of 108%. With EFI and 3D ignition mapping you can run a smaller safety margin than with a carb and clockwork.


Colin Artus

 

[Doc Watson]

Dave,
Sounds like your doing what I did a few months ago.... I've posted my initial thoughts in the general forum called 'First thoughts on building a GT40' I think the SVA specs are as follows.....

"Engine - Due to SVA regulations in the UK you are allowed 1 used componemt on a kitcar. If you choose the engine then pre 1993 means no catalytic converter is required. Pre 1983 requires less severe emissions test and pre 1973 then its a visible smoke test only. So after 4 months searching here in the UK I finally found a 1972 351 Windsor block bored 28 thou oversize ready for 2 thou honing. £500 pounds and a bit of a risk as it needed pressure testing and crack checking. My motor machinist (who builds 1000+ HP V8's for Santa pod 1/4 mile stuff, I think he's british champ at the moment) did the tests and today I found out that everything is OK... phewww....... Forged crank with standard stroke to keep the rod ratio numbers ok and H beam rods with forged pistons are also waiting to be fit. The heads are Air flow research (New Zealand I think) and will arrive in the next week or two. The plan is to have the motor at a point where the internals can be balanced and then stripped down and shipped to me for storage until the chassis is ready. I want a reliable engine to be able to do the Le Mans thing and a few track days and expect about 400 HP with good tickover. Total spent so far is £3500 on the main engine components."

As for web sites showing engine builds.... how many do you want?

Here are a few.....some great info in these and good quality photos....

www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0307_ford/
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/55999/
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0311_clash/index4.html
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/69199/
http://mustangmonthly.com/howto/173_0305_347_engine_build/
http://hotrodders.com/kb/engine/articles.html
http://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/techarticles/73719/
http://www.fordmuscle.com/TechDepartment/engine.php

That should give you something to read for a while.....

Watch out for 'stroker' kits and motors, yes they do give more power but the rod ratio suffers and you can get piston slap as the piston is forced into the side of the cylinder bore, can cause excessive ring wear.

It took me about 4 months but I finally found a 1972 351 Windsor block which is being 'short block' built and balanced for my 40.

Enjoy....

 

Thanks again,

Doc your links have been very helpfull. I like the idea of a 331 as I like the rod ratio's better. It would be good to put an even longer rod in to improve torque. I am going to run a Audi 6 speed which I believe can handle 500 HP.I think a target of 400 - 450HP would be sensible but fun.

I notice a lot of open Bellmouths in the gallery. What are you guy's running for air cleaners / flame arresters?

 

[Alex Hirsbrunner]

For those of you not using any air cleaners (which obviously looks the best!) are you running chrome rings for wear abatement? I have been told that moly rings do not do well in long term (>2500 miles) unfiltered highway or track applications. For drag racing it generally doesn't matter, as everything else will wear out first. I'm starting to pull together an engine plan for RF #129 so thanks very much for any comments.

Regards,

Al H.