Granada uprights

[Mick Ridley]

I am bulding a gt40 replica, and i have been told that the granada uprights, are marginal in their strenght, and that when subject to the extra loads that a gt40 with upgraded brakes will put on them, that there is a possibillity they may fail....... has anyone experianced, a failure when useing granada uprights, any comments on the granada uprights will be gtatefully recieved

mick

 

[glen]

i'd also like to hear about this. but wouldn't there be less load on them in a lighter car than they was designed to take? less weight but more braking compared to a heavy granada carrying less speed but hard to stop.:inquisitive: it would be nice to know safe envelopes of usage of standard parts, especially for my lo cost.
gearbox use has been well discussed (and argued). weight, bhp etc. but limits of other standard parts could be helpful

 

[Frank Catt]

You two are not asking another question - is the Granada geometry suitable for a GT40 build ! Frank

 

[Andy Green]

I was going to add my comments about the fact that they are suitable for road use, but not for a more track focused build, as the bearing spindles are not stiff enough. This leads to them flexing (not breaking or bending) under lateral loading, which in turn leads to the brake pads being pushed back. The next time the brakes are applied the pedal goes to the floor and the driver has a heart in the mouth moment!

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[Paul Thompson 'Hooligan']

Glen / Mick -

Granada uprights have been used for many many builds, not just 40s and whilst not ideal, I've not heard of one breaking under load.

They do suffer from spindle-flex when pushed, but only really when you're on a circuit and then the pads will get knocked-back after cornering so a pre-emptive double-tap on the brakes may be required approaching the next corner. This can also be partially cured by fitting anti-knockback springs behind the caliper pistons.

There are a number of engineerd solutions other than the Granada units available, in both pin and stud type wheel fixing variety although with most types I have heard of failures (and experienced failure first hand on one :shocked

You pays your money you makes your choice and if you go Granada as a lower cost option initially, you can always replace/develop another solution at a later date. (isn't continued development half the fun?)

Of course, if your pockets are DEEP enough, then there are several well engineered solutions out there but as you appear to be building to a 'sensible' budget, they are probably out of the ballpark already....

Good luck with your builds....

 

[KarlB]

Ford Granada components including uprights have been used on many GT40's & other kit/replica cars in the UK including mine. As a member of the GT enthusiasts club in the UK for 3-4 years i have yet to hear of a failure of any Ford upright in our area or within any of our publications.

Regards

KarlB

 

[Mike Pass]

I assume you are talking about the Granada MK2 uprights. Whist they do the job they do not have a very good king pin inclination. As this is quite a small angle the line through which the which the wheels turn does not go anywhere near the centre of the tyre contact patch. Also there is little change in camber angle as the wheels are steered which does not help the turn in. There is an alternative in the Granada Mk3 upright which is a 5 bolt Sierra type upright. This is very cheap and does not have the spindle problem and poor kpi of the Mk2. Because the Mk3 usually has a Macpherson strut attached in the socket at the top this must be replaced by a "mushroom" which is clamped in the top socket and which has a tapered hole in the centre to take the normal top swivel joint. This is like the set up used on Seven type kitcars using the Sierra upright. Because the MK3 upright has a better kpi and is stronger it is a good alternative. The wishbones will need to be different lengths from the Mk2. The bottom taper on the Mk3 may need to be recut as it may be different to what you have. Mick Sollis at Southern GT can supply the "mushrooms" and possibly the wishbones.
Cheers
Mike

 

[Mick Ridley]

thanks to everyone, for taking there time to give an answer to my question....is good to hear from so many knowledgable people

i look foreward to Franks comments, on the suitability of granada uprights, for a GT40...... You may remember me Frank, im the guy, who bought the Granada calipers from you earlyer this year...

Im building A GT40 replica, and I have written an article on it which appeared in the latest magazine for the gt 40 enthusiasts club, the article , was titled, " A GT40 FROM SCRATCH ", If anyone is intrested in reading it, i can send them a PDF file

whllst i mainly recieved positive comments , about my imaganative ideas, and different way of doing things, I do however have a gentleman, who questioned the way I had upgraded my braking system, and asked if it was safe, and sugested that safety should come before cost, and I totaly agree with him on this point,... but i do wish to point out, that i did the modifications, as a challange not a cost cutting excersize,( One of the things i did was to crossdrill my discs. When I crossed drilled the rear discs, i used a different pattern to the front ,just to make it more intersting )

The main thing that concerned him, was the fact, that i had fitted dual calipers to the front braking system, he pointed out, that the Granada uprights were never designed for the extra loading that I was subjecting them to, and that the spindles were marginal in there strength I can see where he is comeing from, but, neither were they designed for, 4 , or 6 pot, upgraded brake sustems,

I will explain what i did, and I look forward to constructive comments

I attached an extra, caliper, to the front of the upright,( there is a pic showing, how I did it, in the article)
I used the 2 mountings on the uprights, and 2 adittional mountings, which are all_ready on the uprights, but I did drill, and tap them from the M6 to M12, I then made some brakets from some 12mm by 25mm en3b steel. Each caliper, is connected to the same 4 mounting points on the upright

when 6 pot calipers, are fitted to the uprights, they only use the 2 original mounting points, and they seem to handle the extra loadings very well, i have emailed manufactures of 6 pot systems, and they say they do not know, of any uprights which have failed because of the 6 pot calipers....

whilst my braking system uses 4 x 54mm pistons, I believe there efficiency to be exual to a 4 pot, system,( Dont forget , I have the original size discs) but unlike other conversions, my system uses 4 mountings, and not 2 therefore, each of the mountings, have half, the loading on them ,

One of the main things wich was said about the granada uprights, was it depended , on how much loading you may put on them, as to how well they performed,

well my car useses a Rover V8, which will give, if Im lucky 200 hp, and with a renault UN 103 gearbox, a top speed of maybe 135 mph, ( not that I will be driving at that speed. Im 47 a bit of an "old boy"., and my car will be for the pleasure of driving, im just too old to drive fast anymore .....)I would love to do the occasionall track day, but it will just be for fun.... To be honest, my main pleasure will come from building the car, not driving it..............

I look foreward to constructive comments

 

[glen]

i read this before about the geo of mk2 granada upright, so got mk3 with discs n calipers for £0.99!!, but i was told the strut diameter was diffrent to the sierra. the only mushrooms i could find were sierra ones from rally design, so i was going to get these and sleeve them. but if mick sells them already.......bonus!!
anyway, keep talking:laugh:

 

[Malcolm]

I ran Granada uprights for a long while, with Alcon 4 pot callipers and slick race tyres. And then did lots of compettion work on hill climbs and circuits. Only ever suffered pad knock back. Changed to the John Wisher ali upright (he supplies Mick, Frank and used to supply MDA) after running the modular steel Ray Chrisptopher uprights and Gardner Douglas ali uprights and haven't looked back since.

Not all Granada uprights gave pad knock back. There are many cars out there that don't get this symptom and that is not just because they don't go on track or push hard. Some granada uprights seemed not to get it whilst others just did. Maybe it is down to the quality of the steel batches or they were cast on a Monday morning instead of a Friday afternoon?

Anyway pad knock back helps develop left foot braking.....

 

[Frank Catt]

Do you remember Carlos Fandango ? I will explain later, Frank

 

[glen]

didn't he smoke a cigar and drive an anglia?

 

[Mick Ridley]

hi glen, i think your right............and didnt he loose his wheels when he drove through a gateway...............hey wasnt a sooped up anglia cool...............

 

[glen]

hi glen, i think your right............and didnt he loose his wheels when he drove through a gateway...............hey wasnt a sooped up anglia cool...............

still is!!!!

 

[Paul Thompson 'Hooligan']

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqqZ28m8uCohttp://www.youtube.com/v/nqqZ28m8uCo&hl=en&fs=1

 

[Mike Pass]

Mick, You think you are an old boy at 47!!! I'm 64 and still trying to lead foot it as often as possible. Too old to live - too young to die. Remember you are a long time dead.
Cheers
Mike

 

[Mick Ridley]

hi Mike ,

thanks for that. so i still have a few years left in me then ?? ...............

if i diont kill my first , with my gt 40 amd its carlos fandango brakes .......lol

mick

 

[Malcolm]

That ad is an all time great.

 

[Mick Ridley]

yes it is , its brilliant...................

thanks paul, you have a great sence of humor

 

[Frank Catt]

Now ask yourself, what does Carlos Fandango tell you about KPI, Ackerman and various other front suspension geometry issues ?? Frank