Incoming CAV GT #41

Rick

Supporter
The car was loaded today in San Jose heading to Seattle, just in time for a major snow event. I was fortunate to have a phone conversation with Elliott Franklin of the Mustang Corral this morning. Elliott built the car for the original owner in 2007 and had a pretty good recollection of what was done. I had found an add for the car from 2 years ago that indicated Elliott built the engine and that it required race fuel. I was relieved that Elliott said it was a pump gas engine (10-1). My plans are to get the car fully inspected including fuel tanks, suspension and the rest of the important bits and drive it to local car events. Once Fall comes around I'm going to upgrade the brakes, stack injection and possibly ignition system. I plan on using the car for HPDE track days. My last car was an AMG GT R which handled great on the track but I was always jealous of the Porsches being able to brake so much later being so much lighter. I'd love to hear others thoughts on brake recommendations and suggestions for what my planned use is. I'll update this thread as it progresses.
 

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Congratulations on your new CAV. Although GT40's are great track day cars be aware there are limitations to ZF (or RBT) transaxles if that is what your CAV has. Don't know what your engine is or if you're planning on running slicks. My SPF has a Roush 427SR and I ran slicks on several track days at PIR. After about 10 track days each I broke 4th gear twice. 4th gear is on the longest unsupported portion of a ZF layshaft. If you're not running slicks or 500+ lb. ft. torque you may be OK. There's reason Ford went with the t44 for the big block.
 

Rick

Supporter
Congratulations on your new CAV. Although GT40's are great track day cars be aware there are limitations to ZF (or RBT) transaxles if that is what your CAV has. Don't know what your engine is or if you're planning on running slicks. My SPF has a Roush 427SR and I ran slicks on several track days at PIR. After about 10 track days each I broke 4th gear twice. 4th gear is on the longest unsupported portion of a ZF layshaft. If you're not running slicks or 500+ lb. ft. torque you may be OK.
Good to know. It is a ZF and the builder said it was at 550HP at the wheels. What's the long term solution for the weak ZF? Also, would you mind elaborating on your track experience with the GT40? What other popular track cars does it compare too? Thanks
 
I suppose the long term solution is don't run slicks and minimize 4th gear usage. Even Lloyd at RBT acknowledged the limits of the ZF and the need for crack testing and gear replacement. At one point I think Lloyd offered special upgraded gear sets. Compared to your AMG the 40 will be faster, but don't expect great brakes. I ran 4 pot Wilwoods, but could have used more. If you can fit 6 pots maybe that will help. My background was racing Formula Atlantics and a Lotus Europa. The GT40 is twice as heavy and not very nimble. I ran stock SPF shocks and springs and that hurt the handling.
 
Two other thoughts on track days. Double clutch downshifts are a must on corner entry. If you don't synch revs the rear end locks and kicks out. Also either install an Accusump or dry sump your engine. Pans are pretty shallow on the 40 and with high G's risk running dry on the pickup. 3 qt. Accusump worked for me. Dry sump is better, but you'll have to re engineer the whole belt/pulley arrangement with limited space at the firewall. None of this is an issue for street driving.
 
Rick, congratulations - you're going to love your CAV. Great to see another CAV coming to Seattle. I ran my 2006 CAV around Seattle for many years, took it to a few track events and really enjoyed it. I only had a mild 302 with an audi transaxle (with LSD and strengthening plate) and never had any problems with the transaxle. Driving at 80% on the track rather than 100% seemed wise, and 80% is enough to keep you near the front with good driving skills.

Looks like you have the 17 inch wheels. I ran the 17's on the street for a while but got tired of the bump/harshness on the poor Seattle roads.....so I ended up running the 15's on the street and put the 17's on for any kind of track event. Seemed to be a good compromise.

Enjoy!
 

Rick

Supporter
Rick, congratulations - you're going to love your CAV. Great to see another CAV coming to Seattle. I ran my 2006 CAV around Seattle for many years, took it to a few track events and really enjoyed it. I only had a mild 302 with an audi transaxle (with LSD and strengthening plate) and never had any problems with the transaxle. Driving at 80% on the track rather than 100% seemed wise, and 80% is enough to keep you near the front with good driving skills.

Looks like you have the 17 inch wheels. I ran the 17's on the street for a while but got tired of the bump/harshness on the poor Seattle roads.....so I ended up running the 15's on the street and put the 17's on for any kind of track event. Seemed to be a good compromise.

Enjoy!
Cliff, Thanks for reaching out. I picked up the car today in Auburn and brought it to my shop in Puyallup. After having an AMG GTR driving the GT felt like a 2 ton truck! Its a very mechanical experience and I love it. I haven't been around a GT in a few years and was taken back by how small the car is. I couldn't help but think about the drivers back in the day pushing these to the limits, insane. I forgot to put tennis shoes on in my excitement to get the car and drove in work boots, not advisable. Its going to JL Fab tomorrow to get checked out and the typical older car items fixed (dash gages not working, etc). Also need to do something about the seat, need an anti submarine just to keep myself in place! Looking foreword to car events (post covid hopefully) this spring/Summer, hope to see you out there.
 
Rick, sounds good - yes, it's not a big car, and surprising how fast these cars went in the back in the day. The CAV stainless chassis is a work of art and incredibly stiff...contributes to a sense of stability and confidence when driving quickly.

One thing I would recommend - get a good alignment done. It can make all the difference in how the car drives. Do a search for alignment specs for a CAV. G2 Motorsports over near Ballard does a really nice job and has all the right equipment.

The other thing I would recommend: consider upgrading the front and rear suspension if your car is an early CAV and still 100% stock. If your car has the OEM aluminum block front uprights for example they're junk. Ian of CAV Canada makes a fantastic front and rear suspension upgrade kit which adds a lot of adjustability and strength. I wouldn't take the car on the track with the early CAV aluminum front uprights.

Have fun and be safe!
 

Ian Clark

Supporter
Hi Rick, gotta say Silver looks great on a GT40! Walter has the right answer for longevity with ZF/RBT transxales. As Dave said syncing the revs is a must (and one of the most rewarding experiences when you get it right). Cliff, thanks for the unsolicited plug...

About the bars in the photo, haven't seen them before but they do look braces of some kind. The CAV monocoque chassis is extremely strong, no additional bracing is required to stiffen it up.

However, on a real bad day, those bars might offer increased roll over protection by triangulating the tubular steel roll hoop built into the CAV GT40 firewall / bulkhead. Keeping the car sunny side up is always recommended

Cheers
Ian
 

Rick

Supporter
Just got the car back from the shop after getting a full inspection and make safe. Btw, I now realize that BAT doesn’t stand for bring a trailer, it’s Bring Another Ten thousand!

So, this is my first GT40 driving experience, definitely requires good throttle control and respect the beast. I update after the weekend with driving impressions.
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Rick

Supporter
RICK,

HOW OLD ARE THE TIRES?? ARE THEY A PERFORMANCE TIRE??? AVONS SEEM TO WORK WELL ON THESE CARS
the tires are 10 years old and pretty greasy. I’ve got a set of 4 Avon’s that have been on tour in a shipping container for the last 4 weeks due to the delays at the Port of Longbeach.
 

Rick

Supporter
Nothing could have prepared me for the thrill these cars are. Rolling down the freeway the car is actually pretty comfortable , if only there was a little more room for the left foot to stretch out or a dead pedal to rest on. Having driven nothing but modern cars for the last 25 years it was a strange sensation to lock up a wheel from a heavy stop. We took the car to a local cruise last night, man does this thing get attention, wow! I made it about halfway down the strip barely moving and had to park it from the leg workout on the clutch, not so fun. Looking forward to years of ownership and upgrades and mods along the way.
 

Ian Clark

Supporter
Wonderful first driving experiences! Ok, I'm a bit biased but nothing in my mind compares to the GT40 in looks, sound, driving experience or drawing a crowd.

There's a bias adjuster under the dash that might help with brake lock up, or it could have been road conditions. A little dust or uneven pavement can do that if you jump on the brakes. No nannies in this car to numb feedback or over ride control, you are the computer...

There are adjustments for the pedals and clutch effort as well.

How's the "Smile-Ometer" working?

Cheers
Ian
 

Rick

Supporter
The smile meter is immeasurable!

Braking, my last car was an AMG GTR and would stop a freight train in a 100’, GT40 braking feels like I’m dragging a stick . Short term, what’s the best pad for it? Long term, are there any 6 piston front caliper options?

I’ll admit when I first drove the car I was pretty intimidated. now I can’t wait to get back in it.
 

Ian Clark

Supporter
It's worth spending some time getting to know the feel of the car as presently configured. Notice how the car responds to steering, throttle and brake inputs. That's important to have for dialing in the cars suspension and brakes, more so than testing the limits as-is.

We had a CAV GT40 with a Ford Racing 392 Crate motor, Weber 48IDAs, RBT/ZF 5DS-25 Transaxle, Gulf wide body, fully equipped with leather interior, carpets, insulation and AC on digital scales to set the corner weights. It was about 2600lbs wet. The corner weights were set with driver and passenger in car (adds a few pounds).

I bring this up in perspective to the AMG GT, a fabulous car by all accounts. With the full might of Mercedes technology behind it and about 5.5lbs per horsepower, there's no doubt it will get up and go, also stops as mentioned.

Your CAV GT40 - 427 Roush IR / ZF combination with the EFI plumbing and electronics probably weighs close to 2700lbs. That gives the CAV GT40 a power to weight ratio of 4.8 lbs/hp. It's a seriously quick car, just needs some adjustments and updates to get all the grip it's capable of on the ground.

Great photos btw!

Cheers
Ian
 
The smile meter is immeasurable!

Braking, my last car was an AMG GTR and would stop a freight train in a 100’, GT40 braking feels like I’m dragging a stick . Short term, what’s the best pad for it? Long term, are there any 6 piston front caliper options?

I’ll admit when I first drove the car I was pretty intimidated. now I can’t wait to get back in it.
Hi

I race a full blown racing version of the CAV in Cape Town. Brakes are absolutely awesome. I am using PFC 300mm floated disks with Willwood (racing) 4 pot callipers. Tilton pedal box onto Tilton dual masters. Car is 900Kgs. Feel and stopping power is better than my Porsche GT3 cars.

I will send picks of the brake system if you want.

James
 
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