Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Thoughts gents?
Israel and Gaza?
- Thread starter Pete
- Start date
Terry Oxandale
Skinny Man
Lots of them, but my opinion on that matter over there is definitely contrary to this country's support for one of the combatants.
Enigmatic as ever Terry 
I don't think anyone has any warm and fuzzy feeling for either, but there does seem to be some historical injustice served out to the Palestinians by the International Community (OK UK & USA amongst others) as an expedience following WWII.
These Arabs have always been shafted - by the Ottomans, and then, unwittingly by Lawrence.
I wonder now though, given the passage of time, whether there can ever be 'peace' - too many people on both sides of the divide have made careers out of it, not to mention a great deal of cash.
I don't think anyone has any warm and fuzzy feeling for either, but there does seem to be some historical injustice served out to the Palestinians by the International Community (OK UK & USA amongst others) as an expedience following WWII.These Arabs have always been shafted - by the Ottomans, and then, unwittingly by Lawrence.
I wonder now though, given the passage of time, whether there can ever be 'peace' - too many people on both sides of the divide have made careers out of it, not to mention a great deal of cash.
Hmmmm, Its basically about occupying land thats not yours so like the Abbo`s in Stralia and the Indians in Merica the Palestinians believe they own the place. How dare they.
Bob
Bob
If you gave Israel to the Palestinians and the Israel's took Gaza, in 10 years Israel would be a slum and Gaza would be prosperous with Hamas and the Palestinians lobbing rockets into Gaza. What exactly would you have Israel do? They are attacked, Hamas puts it's rocket launchers in populated areas, Israel warns the people in those areas of a coming retaliatory attack, people are killed, the hand wringers of the world condemn Israel. Makes perfect sense to me.
We give aid to both of them, the Palestinians aid goes to Hamas for rockets. Terry, who attacks who first? Who try's to live amongst themselves peacefully? Who fucked up and lost land trying to annihilate Israel? Why don't other Arab countries help the Palestinians to prosper and live peacefully?
If you gave Israel to the Palestinians they'd f' it up and the Israeli's would ultimately make Gaza successful.
I always find it intriguing that none of the Arab states take any leadership role in a peace process. It certainly seems they too are interested in maintaining the ongoing conflict as it benefits them to some degree. In addition, and despite their cries of the injustice the Palestinians face, they have no love for them.
Radical Palestinians are the pot stirrers for the Arab world, the can't help them, they need them to be miserable. I doubt that a large percentage of Palestinians condone the attacks on Israel. I think they would rather live peacefully, the Israelis sure would like that.
Understatement of the year Steve. All the time there is unrest and they are stoning each other the price of crude is on the ceiling.
Bob
Terry Oxandale
Skinny Man
I don't doubt the success Israel would have in any reversal of roles. But that really isn't issue here, unless you want to be open minded about this and consider everything about what would happen if the roles were reversed. If a Palestinian encroachment was steadily decreasing the size of Israel, I don't doubt rockets or some means of terrorism would be use by Israel to resist that. My distaste for the whole thing is both historical (the West never gave equal consideration to both since WWII), plus the might-makes-right attitude of Israel in their steady encroachment into Palestine. Push someone hard enough, and anyone will push back. It's time Israel said "I'm satisfied with what we have" and live within their means (boundaries) without military support from the US. I'm wondering how quickly Israel would take that new attitude if support dried up for them from their Western supporters?
We seem to so easily criticize the Palestinian methods in fighting back, yet they don't have the resources others have in the struggle. I would also resort to the crudest of methods in fighting back if that was my only option. Lastly, when I saw Israel push hard against the Palestinian initiative to have the UN address its problems rather than direct negotiations with Israel, that reluctance simply reinforced my opinion that Israel is no less responsible in these deaths and this conflict than anybody else. Israel is not an innocent bystander simply eking out an existence. Israel knows they are pushing the limit of reasonability in global opinion, but they really couldn't care less as long as the US maintains the political need to circle jerk with Israel every time we have an election.
I find it interesting the parallels of our history with the Native Americans and this conflict. Yet another example in which the powerful take of what they want, from whom you can, highlighting the worst of humanity.
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Terry, you seem to forget that in 1967 just about every Arab in the world decide to surprise attack a much smaller Israeli force with the intent of driving them into the ocean. The Arabs got their ass handed to them and lost land in the process. So now after giving back a large portion of the land, you and others think that Israel is the bad guy. They don't suicide bomb, or initiate attacks against Palestine, they defend themselves when attacked, and this is somehow wrong. I fail to see your thought process. If the Palestinians need help making a peaceful country, why not appeal to their own people? Why screw with Israel? Look at the size of Israel compared to surrounding Arab countries. Why don't those countries give the Palestinians a place to live? Ahhh, no more reason to attack Israel! Palestinians serve the Arab world as a thorn to continually irritate the Israelis, there is no reason to help them, they are doing just fine in their misery.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/I...2!3m1!1s0x1500492432a7c98b:0x6a6b422013352cba
https://www.google.com/maps/place/I...2!3m1!1s0x1500492432a7c98b:0x6a6b422013352cba
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Pat
Supporter
Return the UK to the Druids!
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Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Or the Vikings, the Romans, the Normans.......
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
From the Pickering Post, this will stir some of you up.
Barack Obama is alone responsible for the wars erupting in the Middle East right now! He has purposefully alienated Israel and has genuflected to his friends the Saudi Sheiks, the very same Saudi Sheiks who finance Al Queda and support ISIS.
Obama’s actions have emboldened terror groups who now believe that Israel is on its own. And it is, but now he wants to be seen as a peace broker? Too late Mr President.
Barack Obama is alone responsible for the wars erupting in the Middle East right now! He has purposefully alienated Israel and has genuflected to his friends the Saudi Sheiks, the very same Saudi Sheiks who finance Al Queda and support ISIS.
Obama’s actions have emboldened terror groups who now believe that Israel is on its own. And it is, but now he wants to be seen as a peace broker? Too late Mr President.
One simple fact missing from your statement though Al is that to a Palestinian at least, the "Israelis" are squatting on their homelands. They are a displaced people in the classic sense. I have no truck with terrorism however it manifests itself or whoever commits it, but somehow the Israelis think they have a more "righteous" claim to that land (which is nonsense) and they could have gone a lot further to diffuse the situation instead of the provocative settlement building which lit the current fuse. Also, before the West got to fuck with it, Jews and Arabs lived peacefully side by side on the very same patch. They are, after all part of the same Semite tribe.
The Arab world know full well that the Israelis are a proxy fighting force for the USA and it will be interesting to see what happens when/if the USA enjoys nil dependence on Gulf oil.
I am not an apologist for the Palestinians, but only a psychopath could view the their appalling refugee camps with indifference. In the meantime, those same people will continue to be used as pawns in the political power struggle on both sides, and wil continue to do most of the dying.
Who cares? Clearly no-one in the West does for sure....
The Arab world know full well that the Israelis are a proxy fighting force for the USA and it will be interesting to see what happens when/if the USA enjoys nil dependence on Gulf oil.
I am not an apologist for the Palestinians, but only a psychopath could view the their appalling refugee camps with indifference. In the meantime, those same people will continue to be used as pawns in the political power struggle on both sides, and wil continue to do most of the dying.
Who cares? Clearly no-one in the West does for sure....
And.....
Saxons, Jutes, Angles, Picts, Scots never mind the thieving Irish Sea Pirates...
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Keith, unless it has been reported wrongly (that couldn't happen could it) the Israelis are only retaliating to rockets lobbed into Israel by the Palestinians. Ergo no rockets no response. I understand why the Palestinians are pissed off, but maybe they should try a different method of negotiation.
Gotta love those Irish Pirates.
Gotta love those Irish Pirates.
Pat
Supporter
Kingdom of Israel traditionally dated between 1020 and 930 BCE, the region has been also been controlled by others, including Ancient Egyptians, Canaanites, Israelites, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Ancient Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, the Sunni Arab Caliphates, the Shia Fatimid Caliphate, Crusaders, Ayyubids, Mameluks, Ottomans, the British and modern Israelis and Palestinians. History would suggest that the rightful owner is whoever is willing to spill their blood for it and hold it. Dust off your old copies of Alvin Toffler's book "Future Shock"...
+1 for the Irish Pirates...
+1 for the Irish Pirates...
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The well-worn definition of insanity: trying the same tactic over and over and expecting a different result. It is, however, in the best interests of Hamas to keep the conflict going and they never miss an opportunity to stoke the fire. If peace comes and the conflict resolves their relevance begins to wane as the Palestinians realize Hamas' greed, violence and corruption are to their detriment. Sound familiar (Arafat)?
