mk4 for sale in Belgium

Dave Bilyk

Dave Bilyk
GT40s Supporter
#4
Looks very nice JP. The description only talks about mkIV in general and says nothing about this specific car. If it was not a replica, they would surely give a history?
According to the data it is LPG fuelled!
 
#7
Hi

On the dealers website, http://www.lmclassiccars.be/ they suggest this car is J2 (see the letter amongst the pictures).

J2 was the car Ken Miles was so tragically killed in during testing. J2 has usually been described as 'totally destroyed' over the years.
See this thread also,
https://www.gt40s.com/threads/gt-40-chassis-number-x1-x2-xgt2-and-j2.26248/

Regards Steve
Ford with Kar Kraft built 12 JCar tubs and all are accounted for. J1 and J2 were destroyed by Ken Miles testing accident and Ford destroyed the other in rigidity testing. J3 was the MK-IV testing mule, J4 Sebring, J5 thru J8 Le Mans cars, J9 and J10 G7a Spider for Can Am. Two tubs were unmarked and not used (spare parts) and were finish much later in MK-IV coupes J11 and J12. J9 and J10 were rebody to Mk-IV. J3 and J6 private hands. J4 thru J8 in museums (J5 winning car at Ford museum). J9 thru J12 private hands. Continuation cars J13 to J19 were built in the early 2000. None were painted like the car being offered. A Russian Replica is raced in Europe do not know from where it came from. J2 body was not a MK-IV but the lobster front and breadwagon rear with sequential lights. It was totally destroyed in Miles accident. The tubs were reinforced and NASCAR type roll cage was installed in the Le Mans cars.
 

Stephen Ducker

Member
GT40s Supporter
#8
I'm not sure why you have quoted my post & then given a J car / Mk4 potted history ?

I said, " they suggest ".
'they' ie. the seller. Not me or my opinion one way or the other.
Please read the letter on their website http://www.lmclassiccars.be/ & feel free to comment on that.

Best regards Steve
 
#10
Got a tip from my wife,
The car below in the picture is been sold in Belgium several years ago by a trader in St Truiden.
Sold as a GT40 MK4 Recreation.
Might aswel be the same car.

1545149991324.png
 
#11
Got a tip from my wife,
The car below in the picture is been sold in Belgium several years ago by a trader in St Truiden.
Sold as a GT40 MK4 Recreation.
Might aswel be the same car.
Going by the wheel design, no knock off's, Windscreen & rubber surround,minor differences in shape of ducts etc in the body I suspect this may be the NZ built replica that has appeared on the site occasionally over the last 15 or so years, last time the then owner was looking for info to rebuild the transaxle which I was able to help with. IIRC at that time I think the car still had a SBC engine in it.

View attachment 96334
 
#12
Jac Mac, you'r probably right. Its looks the same with the addition of a Gurney bubble and a change of collor.
That recreation belongs to Alexander Deogin from Latvia and is still running a 5.0 Chevy V8
https://www.gt40s.com/threads/spa-summer-classic-22-24june.52200/

I have met Alexander in person at Spa and spoke about his car in detail.
Its a replica build in New Zealand by Ross Baker in the eighties.

That leaves us with the question....... is J2 still alive. Is it been rebuild in 1969 as the letter says.
 

Rick Muck- Mark IV

Member
GT40s Sponsor
#13
I have a letter that says I own all of the Ford race cars from the 60's so hand them over NOW!

Look at the verbiage in the letter; "to built all the" and "accidented", "who the frame for all the MK IV" it sounds like the typical Nigerian/Russian scam letter
 
#14
Hi JP

I remember very well the car that your wife describes.
I bought my first GT40 GTD from the trader in Sint Truiden at the time (early 2000) and the MKIV was just next to mine for sale.
It had a Chevrolet engine and was a tubular frame.
White paint and blue striping.
I was told the car was ceased by US Customs as so said imported into US as an original but it was not.
The trader bought the car and sold it for an amount below an original.

Grtz
Fred
 

D. Nye

Member
Lifetime Supporter
#15
From what I see the two cars are different cars unless a lot of work went in to changing the body. The Belgium car has a square rocker panel while the New Zealand car has rounded rocker like the J4 car. All the cars from J5 on had square rockers They have different noses one with vent holes and one without. Only the Holman Moody cars had holes which were covered for the race in 67. The windsheilds are different in both cars. along with the Gerney bubble. Both look to be replicas but there is nothing wrong with that I own a replica. Still nice looking cars.
 

Markus

SPRF40
Lifetime Supporter
#16
Jac Mac, you'r probably right. Its looks the same with the addition of a Gurney bubble and a change of collor.
That recreation belongs to Alexander Deogin from Latvia and is still running a 5.0 Chevy V8
https://www.gt40s.com/threads/spa-summer-classic-22-24june.52200/

I have met Alexander in person at Spa and spoke about his car in detail.
Its a replica build in New Zealand by Ross Baker in the eighties.

That leaves us with the question....... is J2 still alive. Is it been rebuild in 1969 as the letter says.
I never heard about Ross Baker of New Zealand so I searched the web:
http://www.heroncars.co.nz/template.php?p=content_cars_Mark4
 
#17
Well I saw this car yesterday at the Interclassics Fair Maastricht where it was for sale.
This "J2" is accurate and correct in every detail beeing a mk4. Where ever you look no signs of beeing a fake.
It has the correct engine, drivetrain and it runs & drives.

It seems this mk4 is rebuild upon the remains of the crashed J2 using only genuine parts that where availabe at that time ( end of the sixties), but without permission of Ford.
So there lies the issue, Ford doesn't recognise the car as the car was crashed and written off.

This car is more genuine and original then J11 & J12 as those two where both just half cars and the other halfs where newly made parts, made decades later.

So what do you call a car thats rebuild up on the remains of a written off GT40, build with original parts they had acces to, end of the sixties, but build without knowledge of Ford and without permission of Ford. Build by a few enthiousiasts who did.
A genuine mk4 without ID build at the correct time when they where there.

I don't think you can call it a replica,
I don't think you can call it a re-creation,
I don't think you can call it a continuation.

1547365625861.png

.
1547365673488.png
 
#20
J2 was a J car not a MK-IV.
It was "broken in two" by the Miles crash, remains stored at Holman & Moody for Ford,
possession of the remains transferred to H&M by Ford @ 1971, reported to have been scrapped
The current car using "J2" was not built by Kar Kraft therefor not part of any of the KK build tubs ( J1 > J12) or any original "DNA"
Using "parts of the original" car does not transfer any provenance,
An accurate re-creation using original parts give some tribute to the original item, a lovely car
There is only one Mona Lisa, but many reproductions.

IMHO

jim p
 
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