New 3.22.1 Audi 016 Crown Wheel & Pinions available
- Thread starter Mick
- Start date
Hi, Mick, if you don't mind me asking - who are you and did you come up with this new R&P on your own? I've developed a 3.22 R&P with GTA in Portland, OR area of the United States. This looks suspiciously like our project and the thing that has me nervous is the parts supplier is in Australia.
Mitch D
Mitch D
Re: New 3.22.1 Audi 016 Crown Wheel & Pinions available
***munches popcorn***
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***munches popcorn***
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Mitch It is not my intention to provide a service you may already be providing in the US, more local, If so I apologize and, but I was not aware it was something that was readily available, with a large number having poor ratios in the Audi boxes and not a lot seeming to happen many of us needed low cost solution.
Re: New 3.22.1 Audi 016 Crown Wheel & Pinions available
Mick - GTA will provide the R&P fitted into a Audi 016 transaxle to anyone, anywhere in the world. My concern is that you did not develop this R&P, and you are trying to benefit from someone else's development (namely mine). If you didn't pay to develop the unit, you should not be able to procure these items from the supplier assuming it's the same one that is building them for GTA. There was no such unit available anywhere in the world until GTA and I developed and built it. If you suddenly have your hands on one or claim to have the ability to sell them, then it's an awfully big coincidence.
Are you planning to sell these as a DIY (do-it-yourself) items? Tell me and the other forum members, how do you think it'll fit into the Audi 016 trans?
It is my opinion that something nefarious is going on here. I admonish anyone considering buying this item to perform their own due dilegence to ensure they know what they're getting into.
Mitch D
Mick - GTA will provide the R&P fitted into a Audi 016 transaxle to anyone, anywhere in the world. My concern is that you did not develop this R&P, and you are trying to benefit from someone else's development (namely mine). If you didn't pay to develop the unit, you should not be able to procure these items from the supplier assuming it's the same one that is building them for GTA. There was no such unit available anywhere in the world until GTA and I developed and built it. If you suddenly have your hands on one or claim to have the ability to sell them, then it's an awfully big coincidence.
Are you planning to sell these as a DIY (do-it-yourself) items? Tell me and the other forum members, how do you think it'll fit into the Audi 016 trans?
It is my opinion that something nefarious is going on here. I admonish anyone considering buying this item to perform their own due dilegence to ensure they know what they're getting into.
Mitch D
Mitch I am not trying to benifit from some one elses delvelopment. I find your comments a little bewildering the whole GT40 replica industry is a procurement of someone elses development. The C&P's are intended only as do it your self install therefore you would have to have a level of experience to allow correct fitting. As to the procument of the technology I sourced the manufacturer looking to have a alternate ratio made as you did. The manufacturer advised that he was able to provide what we needed as he had made one or two and sent them to the States and no more than that. I suggest you contact the manufacturer if you have a problem. As to your comments regarding due dilegence I will invite any body who fits one of the units to make comment. Once we have fitted the units into our cars I will post info on how to install them.
Aha - you are admitting what I suspected. You did NOT develop this R&P, and you are using or planning to use some underhanded means to obtain these from the supplier. I believe you will find out very soon that your supplier will not provide you these units. You've also made it abundantly clear that you do NOT know about the particulars of the design and you have no idea what it takes to fit this into the Audi 016. It is by no means a DIY.
My comments should not be bewildering to anyone. I am saying in very clear terms that I believe you are a crook and you're attempting to sell goods for which you don't have the authority to obtain. Anyone with common sense should be able to deduce this based on the fact that your information about the R&P is incomplete, and you fail to post full contact information for you and "your" supplier.
We've already been in contact with the manufacturer, so I know of what I speak. I am willing to bet that you will not be able to acquire these items on your own.
As stated before, I advise anyone thinking about this to contact GTA (German Transaxle in Oregon, USA) to find out the 'real deal'. An email to John at GTA is free and you have nothing to lose. On the other hand, you can send Mick $2800 AUD and see how far you get. I'm guessing that Mick will not deliver as he promises. It's clear Mick is up to something sneaky here.
Mitch D
My comments should not be bewildering to anyone. I am saying in very clear terms that I believe you are a crook and you're attempting to sell goods for which you don't have the authority to obtain. Anyone with common sense should be able to deduce this based on the fact that your information about the R&P is incomplete, and you fail to post full contact information for you and "your" supplier.
We've already been in contact with the manufacturer, so I know of what I speak. I am willing to bet that you will not be able to acquire these items on your own.
As stated before, I advise anyone thinking about this to contact GTA (German Transaxle in Oregon, USA) to find out the 'real deal'. An email to John at GTA is free and you have nothing to lose. On the other hand, you can send Mick $2800 AUD and see how far you get. I'm guessing that Mick will not deliver as he promises. It's clear Mick is up to something sneaky here.
Mitch D
Not poking into your business but being in the creative field myself, I have been victim to even Fortune10 companies stealing my ideas. I have since learned to copyright all my material and having a non-disclosure agreement signed even before I do a presentation. Sometimes, in the heat of wanting to get a great idea to market quickly, we forget that there are some people out there that are just waiting to "find" them to make a profit.
If original CAD or developmental/manufacturing drawings were done and given to the company in OZ that's now producing these, then it is that company's ethical responsibility to honor the originator's rights. Unless, of course, no rights of ownership or royalty contracts were ever discussed. Unfortunately, it's a double-edged sword of sorts. I don't know if OZ and the USA have patent or copyright agreements, then there is the new "global markets" initiatives. China makes better Louis Vuitton handbags than Paris, and they get to 5th Ave. (sidewalks) quicker than the originals. Mikuni carbs are just as good as the originals it copied...
It appears that the manufacturer is willing to supply anyone who is willing to pay for these C&Ps and is now claiming "ownership" of the design.
If original CAD or developmental/manufacturing drawings were done and given to the company in OZ that's now producing these, then it is that company's ethical responsibility to honor the originator's rights. Unless, of course, no rights of ownership or royalty contracts were ever discussed. Unfortunately, it's a double-edged sword of sorts. I don't know if OZ and the USA have patent or copyright agreements, then there is the new "global markets" initiatives. China makes better Louis Vuitton handbags than Paris, and they get to 5th Ave. (sidewalks) quicker than the originals. Mikuni carbs are just as good as the originals it copied...
It appears that the manufacturer is willing to supply anyone who is willing to pay for these C&Ps and is now claiming "ownership" of the design.
Re: New 3.22.1 Audi 016 Crown Wheel & Pinions available
Good points, Ray. As far as 'agreements' and 'contracts' go, they are all in place to the extent necessary for something of this magnitude. This is not afterall some proprietary, complex, high-dollar item. I will finish my comments on this subject by saying that $2800 AUD (approx $2100 USD) would indicate a gigantic mark-up for just the R&P. The GTA package is for a "complete rebuild of your core 016 including the new R&P (Option 1 - not including Quaif LSD)" for approx $2995. That was pricing for 2005 and so far has not increased. Now do you really think a complete rebuild including the requisite machining to install the new R&P is only $800-900? If you think this, then you haven't done your homework.
When you buy your Chinese Louis V bag on the streets of NY you pay much less than the original, and your expectations are set accordingly.
Mitch D
Good points, Ray. As far as 'agreements' and 'contracts' go, they are all in place to the extent necessary for something of this magnitude. This is not afterall some proprietary, complex, high-dollar item. I will finish my comments on this subject by saying that $2800 AUD (approx $2100 USD) would indicate a gigantic mark-up for just the R&P. The GTA package is for a "complete rebuild of your core 016 including the new R&P (Option 1 - not including Quaif LSD)" for approx $2995. That was pricing for 2005 and so far has not increased. Now do you really think a complete rebuild including the requisite machining to install the new R&P is only $800-900? If you think this, then you haven't done your homework.
When you buy your Chinese Louis V bag on the streets of NY you pay much less than the original, and your expectations are set accordingly.
Mitch D
Mitch you dont know me from a bar of soap, calling me a crook is completly uncalled for and incorrect. Many people know me here in OZ and what you are suggesting is sladerous and i suggest you withdraw your comments. I have never stolen anything in my life and and would mever intentionally do so. I am not aware of any rights of ownership or royalty contracts regarding these C&P. As I stated earlier I simply sourced the product from the manufacturer and If I had been advised of any ownership rights, then I would have considered this before offering the units for sale. If you are concerned about the potentail loss of sales how is it only one or two units appear to have been fitted. If I am advised by the manufacturer as to your ownership rights then I will withdraw my offer and refund any monies. Lets not forget the nature of the Replica car industry is to copy or improve what some one else has done. I as many others offer freely what we have learned on this and other forums with out any reward because we love what we do.
I'm not concerned about 'loss of sales'. I am not selling these - I make no money on any of them. I started the whole thing by personally paying for the item to be designed and built so I could have one for my own GT40 replica. GTA is the seller, and they have the only experience building one of these into the prototype unit which has been in the test-drive phase in a real car since Dec-2005. The supplier has only built one unit to date and I am the owner of it. There is now a follow on order for (15) units in work at the supplier in OZ at this time. These are all firm orders through GTA. The nature of the agreement between GTA and the supplier is not for me to disclose here, that should be discussed offline between the parties involved. GTA will discuss futher with the supplier and if I find out that your offer was completely innocent then I will gladly post a retractment of my comments.
Check out my thread on the subject:
http://www.gt40s.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/57684/an/0/page/0#57684
As I noted in my last post - your price of $2800 AUD is a huge markup for the parts alone. Buyer beware.
Mitch D
Check out my thread on the subject:
http://www.gt40s.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/57684/an/0/page/0#57684
As I noted in my last post - your price of $2800 AUD is a huge markup for the parts alone. Buyer beware.
Mitch D
Re: New 3.22.1 Audi 016 Crown Wheel & Pinions available
Thank you Mitch that is all I ask. As you stated, I to was looking for a local solution to the ratio problem. It was never my intention to pilfer someone elses idea. I believed it was readily available.The price for the units are based on what I have been quoted. You may have better buying power.If you are able to offer them for sale at far reduce cost I would be happy to by yours.
Thank you Mitch that is all I ask. As you stated, I to was looking for a local solution to the ratio problem. It was never my intention to pilfer someone elses idea. I believed it was readily available.The price for the units are based on what I have been quoted. You may have better buying power.If you are able to offer them for sale at far reduce cost I would be happy to by yours.
Re: New 3.22.1 Audi 016 Crown Wheel & Pinions available
I was mistaken in my earlier post. GTA's 2005 pricing for Option 1 is $2695 USD (user supplies rebuildable core).
As shown in my original thread:
http://www.gt40s.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/57684/an/0/page/0#57684
To determine if any pricing changes are in the plans for 2006, you'd have to contact John at GTA directly. As I said, if you 'really' want one of these, GTA is the only source at this time.
Mitch D
I was mistaken in my earlier post. GTA's 2005 pricing for Option 1 is $2695 USD (user supplies rebuildable core).
As shown in my original thread:
http://www.gt40s.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/57684/an/0/page/0#57684
To determine if any pricing changes are in the plans for 2006, you'd have to contact John at GTA directly. As I said, if you 'really' want one of these, GTA is the only source at this time.
Mitch D
MitchD...Very interesting. Guilty until proven inocent hey?
"if I find out that your offer was completely innocent then I will gladly post a retractment of my comments."
It's a bit late for that don't you think?
How is it that you feel you have the right to publicly defame someone with only your assumptions?
Wouldn't it have been wiser to have gathered "proof' before calling someone an "underhanded crook"?
Shouldn't you have taken this up with the manufacturer rather than attacking/defaming the reseller?
I'd suggest that YOU present everyone here with your "proof" of ownership i.e
atent # or copywrite documentation.
"if I find out that your offer was completely innocent then I will gladly post a retractment of my comments."
It's a bit late for that don't you think?
How is it that you feel you have the right to publicly defame someone with only your assumptions?
Wouldn't it have been wiser to have gathered "proof' before calling someone an "underhanded crook"?
Shouldn't you have taken this up with the manufacturer rather than attacking/defaming the reseller?
I'd suggest that YOU present everyone here with your "proof" of ownership i.e
atent # or copywrite documentation.Re: New 3.22.1 Audi 016 Crown Wheel & Pinions available
A conversation was held with the vendor today. GTA has an agreement with the vendor, it's not between me and the vendor. Suffice to say, the parties involved in that agreement will hash it out. As for my comments about Mick, 'if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.' I am the originating party that funded design and development, and the pic on Mick's dubious site is the unit which I own and it's currently installed in a car here in the states. I have been very forthcoming on this forum about all stages of development from the kick-off.
Mick on the other hand has never uttered a word about an R&P prior to now, and it's quite apparent he isn't forthcoming to any potential customers about the nature of the item, it's uniqueness with regards to install in the Audi trans, his experience with design and development with the vendor, etc.
You also appear to be involved with Mick. I notice your homepage is also the same as Mick's.
My challenge is simple to you or Mick - stand and deliver one of those R&P's. If you do, then I'll stand down.
Mitch D
PS - if Mick or you are "resellers" then you're not supposed to be using this forum as "members". You're supposed to pay as a manufacturer/vendor if that is the case.
A conversation was held with the vendor today. GTA has an agreement with the vendor, it's not between me and the vendor. Suffice to say, the parties involved in that agreement will hash it out. As for my comments about Mick, 'if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.' I am the originating party that funded design and development, and the pic on Mick's dubious site is the unit which I own and it's currently installed in a car here in the states. I have been very forthcoming on this forum about all stages of development from the kick-off.
Mick on the other hand has never uttered a word about an R&P prior to now, and it's quite apparent he isn't forthcoming to any potential customers about the nature of the item, it's uniqueness with regards to install in the Audi trans, his experience with design and development with the vendor, etc.
You also appear to be involved with Mick. I notice your homepage is also the same as Mick's.
My challenge is simple to you or Mick - stand and deliver one of those R&P's. If you do, then I'll stand down.
Mitch D
PS - if Mick or you are "resellers" then you're not supposed to be using this forum as "members". You're supposed to pay as a manufacturer/vendor if that is the case.
The only way I will not stand and deliver is if the supplier who has agreed to supply the units withdraws supply. In which case it would be obvious to most that the procurment was never underhanded or illegal but something the supplier believed he was able to do, as a result your comments are ill founded and incorrect and will result in further action. If it is the same vendor you suggest, I have been advised that he is away today. You must be talking to a different supplier.
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Mitch D, I do not have the same homepage as Mick, but I have known him as a business man and a friend for some time.
And I have absolutely no doubt about his honesty and integrity.
I really think it would be prudent of you to check your facts before defaming and slandering anyone on this or any other forum.
And I have absolutely no doubt about his honesty and integrity.
I really think it would be prudent of you to check your facts before defaming and slandering anyone on this or any other forum.
Re: New 3.22.1 Audi 016 Crown Wheel & Pinions available
I would like to say that I have known Mick for sometime & he has been so helpfull in the build of my car.
The comments made on this thread are BULL SHIT.
Correct me if I am wrong.
The said development work was that not getting done in Portland.
At no time was it said that it was being made in AUST.
We have several gear manufacturers in Aust it is obvious that Mick has picked the same one you did.
We dont go to Portland to get gears made.
What are the odds of that.
The ratio problem is the same here as it is anywhere in the Audi trans.
Mick & I discussed ratios sometime ago & I explained several points & pointed him towards gear calculators to have a play & do some home work.
This has been in the pipeline for sometime ,just because 2 people come up with the same idea it does not make one persone a scammer.
If we want gearsets we would obviously use our gear manufacturers.
It is obviously a coincidence.
Dont blurt out that I am in with Mick & its all a plot because its not, it all coincidental.
Jim C
I would like to say that I have known Mick for sometime & he has been so helpfull in the build of my car.
The comments made on this thread are BULL SHIT.
Correct me if I am wrong.
The said development work was that not getting done in Portland.
At no time was it said that it was being made in AUST.
We have several gear manufacturers in Aust it is obvious that Mick has picked the same one you did.
We dont go to Portland to get gears made.
What are the odds of that.
The ratio problem is the same here as it is anywhere in the Audi trans.
Mick & I discussed ratios sometime ago & I explained several points & pointed him towards gear calculators to have a play & do some home work.
This has been in the pipeline for sometime ,just because 2 people come up with the same idea it does not make one persone a scammer.
If we want gearsets we would obviously use our gear manufacturers.
It is obviously a coincidence.
Dont blurt out that I am in with Mick & its all a plot because its not, it all coincidental.
Jim C
