New Changes at Porsche..all new models & small turbo engines for 911

[john b]

Significant New Changes at Porsche..all new models & small turbo engines for 911

Sure glad we are not getting any of that pressure to use these new small size turbo engines. Turbo lag and terrible engine exhaust sounds are not my idea of great hi performance sports cars.


Porsche plans 911 GT3 RS, supercar, turbo 911 range and new 918 | Autocar

... In addition to the Cayman GT4 revealed earlier this month, further new models will join the existing Boxster and Cayman line-ups, and the 911 will receive the greatest conceptual shake-up since swapping air for water cooling in 1997. There will also be a new 918 Spyder and a brand-new supercar that will take Porsche into uncharted waters...

,,,, it is Porsche’s decision to design a new engine for the GT3 RS that is the most significant development. That’s because by the end of the year and in a rather different state of tune, this new engine will also be standard issue in all conventional 911s. What’s more, and unlike in the GT3 RS, all ‘normal’ 911s that use this engine will be turbocharged.

Porsche has yet to reveal the size or power output of the new unit, but the use of forced induction for the standard 911 after 52 years of normal aspiration is motivated far more by the need to reduce fuel consumption and emissions than to provide additional power.

The engine is expected to deliver a modest power boost, substantially more torque and significantly better CO2 emissions and fuel economy. However, don’t expect a new naming strategy. There are turbocharged models in both the Macan and Cayenne ranges that do not bear ‘Turbo’ badging, so expect the same approach for the new 911...

 

[Henry Nickless]

Turbo Lag!!!??
I think you are about 10 years out of date. The new turbo engines have very little lag and are far more responsive than a big LS V8 etc.

 

[P Roth]

Welcome to the automotive future. Emissions, gas mileage and regulations are killing off the big V engines. TopGear has been discussing the loss of the V12 and V10's in favor of the smaller engines for a bit now. The Porsche 918 is a hybrid, the 488 Ferrari is a 238 C.I. turbo engine, the McClaren P1 is a Hybrid, the 2016 Ford GT has a turbo V6, the Lambo Asterion concept car is a hybrid. The Supercars are slowly changing over. Small turbo/super charged and/or hybrid engines are here to stay. Luckily for the fans, they still make big HP numbers! As the Borg said; "resistance is futile". I am sure there will be some that will disagree with this at length, but this is where the auto industry is going. Chrysler, GM and Ford are only making these huge engines available due to the large volume of small engines helping their CAFE standards. As the standards tighten, those engines will go away. Ford is already doing that with their "ecoboost" program and using the new GT as a platform to promote them.

 

[roaldin]

To paraphrase myself from another thread:

As the owner of a big block car, several small block cars and a couple of turbo cars - compact light powerful engines are imo perfect for a high performance sports car. Big heavy engines are bloody terrible for anything except straight line and straight line does not a sports car make.

If you want big power and especially torque from a small light engine a turbo is a good way to get it.

A turbo car that lags is an easy thing to learn, and once learned is tremendous fun, but lag really isn't the issue it used to be.

I love my turbos and I reckon my R33 GTR particularly sounds fantastic!

I also think hybrids are a brilliant thing and can't wait till a really good one that fulfills its promises makes it to market.

I'm not really a fan of V6s though...


A lighter torquier engine wouldn't be a bad thing hanging out the back of a Porsche imo.


Tim.

 

[James]

Turbo Lag!!!??
I think you are about 10 years out of date. The new turbo engines have very little lag and are far more responsive than a big LS V8 etc.

Depends on your definition of response. Will it rev faster with no load? Yes, I believe there is no way to argue that. However, I think that there is still the issue with transient response of an NA vs a turbo. Yes, they are getting better with such technologies as twin scroll, VNT/VGT, lightweight turbines/ compressors and improved aerodynamics.

However, you still have to "wait" for the turbo to spin up when you mash the gas when you exit out of the turn. The instant torque of an NA engine is easier to modulate. Those in the "drift scene" almost consider an LS swap cheating because the torque is so easy to modulate and control, you don't have to bounce off the rev limiter to knock the tires loose.

I will say, that with current technologies such as a hybrid motor system to give instant torque does mitigate the lag you get from turbos.


I still think it's entertaining to see GM get almost 30mpg out of a 6.2L 450hp V8, that weighs less than almost any turbo V6 and only a few lbs more than a turbo 4. To add insult to injury, Popular Mechanics (IIRC) tried to see how many MPG they could get out of the new Vette if they drove down the highway at 55mph. In the end the wound up with 37.5mpg, which is better than almost any V6 I know of.

 

[john b]

My own concerns about this story...
Has anyone found any follow up info on these changes coming from Porsche? The AUTOCAR article by Andrew Franke seems to be the only one. As long as I can remember, when Porsche announced significant changes, the whole auto world followed their every word as if the subject was of divine importance. Most of the possible Porsche changes mentioned in the article seem to make sense, yet something just doesn't seem right


with this story. Seat of the pants dyno

STOP PLATE TECTONICS!

 

[Matt K]

My own concerns about this story...
Has anyone found any follow up info on these changes coming from Porsche? The AUTOCAR article by Andrew Franke seems to be the only one. As long as I can remember, when Porsche announced significant changes, the whole auto world followed their every word as if the subject was of divine importance. Most of the possible Porsche changes mentioned in the article seem to make sense, yet something just doesn't seem right


with this story. Seat of the pants dyno

STOP PLATE TECTONICS!

If you're wondering about the switch to all turbo being accurate… it is unfortunately 100% true. The Carreras will sport a 350 hp turbo 2.7 and the Carrera S will sport a 430 hp turbo 3.0.
The Cayman/Boxster will have a 4 cylinder. Hatz hates the sound but said they're working on improving it. It doesn't sound like they'll even offer flat 6s as an option which kills me. The GT4 is going to double or triple in price shortly…
As for the 918 replacement/488 fighter, Porsche has been talking about this forever. No doubt they'll eventually come out with one but to think if it as a 918 replacement is weird.

 

[john b]

Not looking for more guesses as to Porsche future projects. I AM looking for actual links from Porsche to support the claims made in the article that I posted. I AM looking for direct quotes or links from Porsche. Otherwise, I apologize for posting the article. My bad. ( It was not possible to delete the post)

Yes,.. many or all of these things may very well happen. But that is very different than publishing information as verified fact.

 

[Matt K]

Not looking for more guesses as to Porsche future projects. I AM looking for actual links from Porsche to support the claims made in the article that I posted. I AM looking for direct quotes or links from Porsche. Otherwise, I apologize for posting the article. My bad. ( It was not possible to delete the post)

Yes,.. many or all of these things may very well happen. But that is very different than publishing information as verified fact.

The only part of my response that was speculation was the bit about the 918 fighter. Porsches are kind of my thing… I thought my word was good enough. Porsche will not make any official press release about this anytime soon but they're not exactly withholding anything. If quotes are good enough for you though, look no further.
Exclusive: Porsche 911 to get a 2.7 turbo | Wheels

Dig around and you'll see most major news sources published something similar. My power figures previously posted are factual and broke after this article.

 

[john b]

Thanks for the link. I too am an old Porsche person and I do still race them. On the internet I strongly prefer verifiable facts before I pass them along.
Again, thanks for the link.

 

[Michael Fling]

Speaking of Porsche... My son Tyler is moving to Atlanta. He just got hired as a driver / coach for Porsche at their new headquarters PEC in Atlanta. I am so happy for my son and I am so grateful for his opportunity. I have my eye on a new GT4. It is the first time the Caymen will have the same engine as the 911S. Lighter and mid engine. Do the math.

 

[Matt K]

Speaking of Porsche... My son Tyler is moving to Atlanta. He just got hired as a driver / coach for Porsche at their new headquarters PEC in Atlanta. I am so happy for my son and I am so grateful for his opportunity. I have my eye on a new GT4. It is the first time the Caymen will have the same engine as the 911S. Lighter and mid engine. Do the math.

Very cool, Michael! Congrats to your son!! The GT4 is the car purists and haters have always wanted from Porsche. It is rumored that all build slots are already taken (and were so only a few days after the official unveil) but if you're interested, it's worth a shot to go see for yourself. Porsche said that if there is sufficient demand, PDK might be offered later (hinting at a possible GT4.2 in the future). Considering next gen caymans/boxsters will have turbo 4s and GTs don't traditionally rock manual trans anymore, I think the GT4 will absolutely skyrocket in price in the next decade. Seriously wish I could have picked one up. Build it in signal green and you've got one of the most sought after cars Porsche has built in modern times.

 

[Mike]

The last boosted car I was in was an F40. I didn't think the lag was bad but I come from the world of diesel performance where lag can be a pain getting big turbines spun up. Lag can be a drag but it's also a lot of fun when she starts to light. I'm repowering my gt40 now and did not consider a turbo because well it's a gt40. If I was building anything else it would for sure be an E85 turbo powered engine. Just hard to beat that pull.

 

[Chris Huck]

Just the same as the BMW M division, always used to be n/a but all are now turbo's, shame, but the way of the world we live in now. Although saying that a friend has a new M5 with the twin turbo V8 in it and it goes like a rocket, much quicker than his old V10 M5 which did sound much nicer on full chat mind.

 

[Ted - LS MAN]

Let me know when any of the above engine options will be available for under $8k brand new, lighter, more powerful, and simpler than an LS.

I think Porsche builds excellent cars, and a turbo 911 engine in a SLC is a viable option. I don't think it can be done meeting the above criteria.