Non-Ford Engines

#1
How many people are using non-ford derived engines in their projects? I am half considering using a tuned Audi 4.2L V8 in my project; has anyone tried this?
 

Mike Drew

Active Member
#2
I have to ask the simple question--why?

One could *barely* make a case for such a move in Europe, where Ford engines aren't as commonly available. But in the USA, you would never be able to get anywhere near the performance of a well-built Ford out of an Audi motor. So, the Ford offers:

1) The same performance as an Audi for substantially less cost, or

2) Substantially more performance than the Audi for the same cost, and most importantly

3) It's the only 'right' motor for the car.

Finally, installing a non-Ford motor would substantially hurt the value of your car; I would go so far as to say that if modifications are required to adapt it, your car with an Audi motor would be worth less than your car with no motor at all.
 

Ian Anderson

Lifetime Premier Supporter
#3
Ok

I'm in the UK
When I bought the part built project there was an engine there with documentation proving it was new and unused which aided me in getting it shrough the SVA tests here.

It is from the Rover / Range Rover / Land Rover V8 group at 3.9l

The engine number says it was supplied to Morgan

And then the previous owner had it taken to full TVR race spec.

And at the time Landrover was owned by Ford so is this a Ford?

I decided to live with this motor until it breaks (Hopefully not too soon) then go for a more period correct Ford unit.

Ian
 

Mal

New Member
#4
In Australia, we cannot register a new car with a SBF anymore, regardless of whether or not it could be made to meet emision standards. Engines used must have been have been available in a showroom production car meeting Aust Design Rules within 3 years prior to date of attempted registration. Our manufacturers have basicaly been forced to retool for modular V8's.

The next act of stupidity is that our state government has decreed that no new passenger vehicle can be registered after Jan 1 2010, (less than 20 months away) without being equiped with electronic stability contol and curtain and dash/steering wheel airbags. This is despite the fact that this is not an ADR requirement. Any kit manufacturers out there who are interested in finding space for ESC, 6+ air bags, plus control systems, plus crash testing 6-10 road ready cars to prove the system works, you may find a market out here.

I have more or less given up on the dream of building a car, I'll just pollute with the 70's Volvo till it or I finally expire.

Getting slightly off topic, for which I apologise, but there are situations where a period correct engine is not ideal.
 

Simon

Active Member
#5
"The next act of stupidity is that our state government has decreed that no new passenger vehicle can be registered after Jan 1 2010, (less than 20 months away) without being equiped with electronic stability contol and curtain and dash/steering wheel airbags. This is despite the fact that this is not an ADR requirement. Any kit manufacturers out there who are interested in finding space for ESC, 6+ air bags, plus control systems, plus crash testing 6-10 road ready cars to prove the system works, you may find a market out here."

Sadly I think it's just a matter of time before these sort of nannying regs are brought in here (UK) and Europe as well as the US.
The worldwide kit car industry will be decimated due to the worldwide compensation culture!
(I REALLY hope I'm wrong here)

Simon
 

Tim

New Member
#6
In Australia, we cannot register a new car with a SBF anymore, regardless of whether or not it could be made to meet emision standards. Engines used must have been have been available in a showroom production car meeting Aust Design Rules within 3 years prior to date of attempted registration. Our manufacturers have basicaly been forced to retool for modular V8's.

The next act of stupidity is that our state government has decreed that no new passenger vehicle can be registered after Jan 1 2010, (less than 20 months away) without being equiped with electronic stability contol and curtain and dash/steering wheel airbags. This is despite the fact that this is not an ADR requirement. Any kit manufacturers out there who are interested in finding space for ESC, 6+ air bags, plus control systems, plus crash testing 6-10 road ready cars to prove the system works, you may find a market out here.

I have more or less given up on the dream of building a car, I'll just pollute with the 70's Volvo till it or I finally expire.

Getting slightly off topic, for which I apologise, but there are situations where a period correct engine is not ideal.
We in New Zealand almost had that in 1990 when Land Transport looked at changing the rules to that that would make it all but impossible to build home built cars or modify production cars. A collection of clubs got together and went and put our case. The outcome of which we now have the Low Volume Vehicle Technical Association. Low Volume Vehicle Technical Association, Inc We have seen the intorduction of rules for LVV cars that are built in quantities of 250 or less in a calender year. England has its SVAs which are much the same.

I think it is time for Clubs to band together and beat the politicians to the mark with submitions and put an alterniitive system into place before they force us into stopping all together.

Sorry for off topic but I thought that a mention of what might be possible is not a bad thing.
 
#7
Yep - we are lucky here in New Zealand where we can virtually build what we like within the rules of the LVVA. When I had the tech inspector looking at the Lambo last year, he said that there have been 60,000 vehicles with changes, scratch-builts or modifications done in this country since the LVVA introduction, and not one has ever contributed to a vehicle accident.

Back on the topic though, didnt some of the orginal Gt40's have Chevy motors in them at one time, or was this just privateer competitons they were used in??
 

Jac Mac

Active Member
#8
GM did buy one for evaluation-1050- when they were thinking of doing a mid-engined Vette.

This car was subsequently bought from GM by Jim Kinsler of Kinsler Fuel Injection, which saved it from the GM crusher!!
 
#9
Damon, I've got perhaps a unique one here - I'm planning on building a 5.0 mercedes with webers which I would like to put in my gt40 depending on dimensions. The engine I'm looking at is the 5.0 litre 220 series engine (S500) from '92-'99 - came with four cams and four valves/cyl. It's a nice smooth engine that is all aluminum. With weber induction I think it will weigh about the same as a SBF, perhaps 25lbs more due to the add'l valve train weight. I've seen one of these with a custom inlet manifold and 48 IDAs put out 475hp/440tq at the wheels with peak hp at 6250 and peak tq at 5000 (considerably power than stock). Assuming 10-12% friction losses that's a load of power at the flywheel. That engine really starts to breath above 3,500 with the 4V. Sounds amazing too.

My thought isn't to just be different for the sake of being different - I'm looking for a large displacement (>5.0 ltr) all aluminum engine with four cams and four valves/cyl on a moderate (sub $10,000) budget. This is one of the few out there that meets that criteria. Low mileage used Merc 5.0s like this can be had for about $2,500 which leaves lots of room for a nice IDA set up and a custom manifold.
 
#10
If you want something different, why not try the 32-valve cobra motor or the 5.4 in the navigator? These are both a little more exotic than the old pushrod motors, but they are still fords! I'm sure someone has done this already....
 

John

Active Member
#11
Not sure of there availability over there but both the Nissan and Toyota V8, are gaining a lot of popularity down here, the Toyota 1zu has quite a following, with a wealth of goodies available , but the Nissan has been a bit of a sleeper with people only now starting to realise it has a lot of benifits over the Toyota lump, both quite capable of 500 hp with minor mods
just a thought
John
 

New Member
#12
The ford 4.6 and 5.4 are supported in the aftermarket if you know where to look. we have used it in our GT,s and in the cobras with grate results. 1000+ hp is not that hard to get out of a 4.6
 
#13
Instead of Mercedes V8, why don't you build an all-aluminum SBF? You can get an aluminum block from Ford Racing (there may be others as well) and even with all forged internals and a good set of heads it would cost less than buying and adapting a Mercedes V8. I love Mercedes cars (I've had a few old ones myself) but I think a GT40 ought to have a SBF, BBF, or Ford Indy engine. Now, if you want a Ford Indy engine or even better a Ford SOHC cammer big-block Jay Cushman can hook you up....but they aren't cheap.
 

David Lowe

Lifetime Premier Supporter
#14
I run a 4.6L 32V Cobra engine (because of OZ emission controls) with Motec M800 management system. The car runs like a dream with good torque through to sixth gear. The cost of the crate engine was and still is quite reasonable (approx $6.8k AUD). I did my time on the older style engine in the 70's owning a Mustang and working on my mates GT Falcons. To my mind the newer engines are a giant step forward.
David
 

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#15
I realise this is a pretty old post but with my VASS signatory hat on I can clear up a few misconceptions here:

In Australia, we cannot register a new car with a SBF anymore, regardless of whether or not it could be made to meet emision standards.
Not true, if you could prove by full ADR drive cycle test results that your SBF meets ADR 79/01, you could use it. I don't think that would be easy.

Engines used must have been have been available in a showroom production car meeting Aust Design Rules within 3 years prior to date of attempted registration.
Sort of, in Victoria you can backdate the beginning of manufacture of your ICV 3 years and use an engine that was available 3 years prior to that (so 6 years all up) IF you don't want to run an emissions test - this is comparative assesment.

Our manufacturers have basicaly been forced to retool for modular V8's.
Pretty much - due mainly to the first answer above. Except of course in WA, Qld and SA where you can use 302's if granted prior approval through the registering authority.

The next act of stupidity is that our state government has decreed that no new passenger vehicle can be registered after Jan 1 2010, (less than 20 months away) without being equiped with electronic stability contol and curtain and dash/steering wheel airbags. This is despite the fact that this is not an ADR requirement. Any kit manufacturers out there who are interested in finding space for ESC, 6+ air bags, plus control systems, plus crash testing 6-10 road ready cars to prove the system works, you may find a market out here.
Not true, this only applies to full volume production compliance plated cars - not ICV's. Which is a relief, especially for our accounts department...

I have more or less given up on the dream of building a car, I'll just pollute with the 70's Volvo till it or I finally expire.
That is a shame, the mod engines like Daves above make for a great car. The RF5.4 has 550Nm and 300kW out of the box...albeit heavier and larger.

Getting slightly off topic, for which I apologise, but there are situations where a period correct engine is not ideal.
Agreed. Just thought I'd clear this up in case others were thinking the same. This info is of course applicable to all the manufacturers, not just RF
 
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Jim

New Member
#16
It's not a GT40 without a Ford engine. If you have to go modern, a new factory Ford Boss 302 Four valve will meet all emmisions and makes 444 HP and has a 7200 rpm redline. This is a cutting edge technology engine that is lightweight and even comes with a warranty.
Ranger Jim
 

Dimi Terleckyj

Lifetime Premier Supporter
#17
Hi All

I have been running a 5.4 Ford Boss 260Kw since 2008 and have put in excess of 23000Km's on my 40 with no problems and the maximum amount of fun I have ever had in any car I have ever owned.

Dimi
 
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